TargetTalk

Has anyone had any issues with this gun? This is the new RapidFire model

I know of a number of these new models that are having malfunctions with the fired cases not extracting properly or the new round not feeding correctly from the magazine into the chamber. I am going to spend some time with one of these guns on the weekend to specifically see the malfunction.

It is affecting a number guns with a variety of ammo, initial thoughts were it may be due to a rough chamber, but after polishing 3 or 4 guns the problem persisted.

Has anyone else experienced problems with feeding or extraction and have you been able to determine the cause and fix it?

Thanks

Mike

I own one since May 2008.

I have used it quite a lot since then using several brands/types of ammunitions, from cheap CCI standard to match grade (I tried CCI, RWS, SK, Federal and magtech, most used are CCI for training and SK for match). It worked fine with all of them. Of course I never used any strong, high velocity ammunitions: match pistols are not made to use such type of ammunitions.

I had once some problems of extraction after using it for about six months without cleaning the breech but it was only due to a dirty gun (I must say that I do not like to spent time in cleaning => I do not clean it often, I dismounted it for cleaning only three times since I bought it).

I seems that a batch of guns had not enough hardened extractors that wear fast and can cause extraction problems. After having my extraction problems, I checked my extractor with both Morini and my local importer (both very reactive and helpful) and it appeared that my extractor had no problem. According to Morini the batch with bad extractors was only sold in Sweden.

About new round not feeding correctly, it can happen for the first round if it is not well placed in the magazine (it should point up, it is easy to identify, when the first round is not well placed, the loaded magazine is difficult to insert in the pistol frame). This is a common problem with many .22 pistols. I never had feeding problems with the following rounds.

I must say that its a real pleasure to shoot with this pistol: its well balanced, very low in the hand, stable, soft recoil and it has an excellent trigger. I also like the rake of the grip that is similar to the one of modern AP.

The feed/extraction problem of the CM22 has been eliminated from my pistol by the following (and the group size reduced) :-
1/ Ream an polish the chamber to a American Match grade chamber and blend a small lead on the lower lip of the chamber (sometimes the nose of a round would catch and distort on feeding).
2/ Increasing the slide spring weight towards maxium, but also re drilling the frame and going up a size in diameter/wire size with the hammer spring. Both of these action have slowed down the slide cycle a little and stopped the feed distortion of the round into the chamber, and the heavier strike has solved all the light strike issues.
The pistol now has a improved group and a much improved reliability with malfunction virtually eliminated.
Mine is a steel frame pistol, very good for sport and standard pistol, just a little heavy for rapid (but suitable as my backup rapid pistol).

David M wrote:The feed/extraction problem of the CM22 has been eliminated from my pistol by the following (and the group size reduced) :-
1/ Ream an polish the chamber to a American Match grade chamber and blend a small lead on the lower lip of the chamber (sometimes the nose of a round would catch and distort on feeding).
2/ Increasing the slide spring weight towards maxium, but also re drilling the frame and going up a size in diameter/wire size with the hammer spring. Both of these action have slowed down the slide cycle a little and stopped the feed distortion of the round into the chamber, and the heavier strike has solved all the light strike issues.
The pistol now has a improved group and a much improved reliability with malfunction virtually eliminated.

Thanks for the feedback and interresting hints to improve the CM22M.

How old is your pistol ? This question because the CM22M had a "silent" evolution over the time.

David M wrote:Mine is a steel frame pistol, very good for sport and standard pistol, just a little heavy for rapid (but suitable as my backup rapid pistol).

So, it is a CM22M and not the new CM22M RF (this one only exists with an aluminium frame).

For infro\\ormation, if you do not know the CM22M RF (it was introduced on the market end 2007 but still doesn't appear on the Morinio website !?!?!):
http://www.cybertir.com/TESTS/CM%2022%20M/CM22M.htm
http://www.interprodukter.se/nyheter.htm

jipe wrote: How old is your pistol ? This question because the CM22M had a "silent" evolution over the time.

Owned an eary issue of the CM 22 (steel). Some issues, yes... Got rid of it fast.

jipe wrote: CM22M RF (it was introduced on the market end 2007 but still doesn't appear on the Morinio website !?!?!):

I will receive my new CM22 RF alu in the near future. "Reliable sourses" have stated the "new generation" of CM 22s have improved much in reliability. (but this thread brings some worries about that...).

Should have did the same with your MG2, it would have spared us all.

We should all warn Morini not to sell you one.

Richard H wrote:Should have done the same with your MG2, it would have spared us all.

We should all warn Morini not to sell you one.

Not that easy, sorry. MG2s have hardly any second hand value in Scandinavia. Impossible to trade them off. I am stuck with it :-(

I expect my new Morini to do faily well.

(Thanks for your consern, anyway).

Poor Francesco, we should send him some flowers in advance...

I think maybe he should just take up fishing.

The CM22 I refered to is a very early one from the first production run.
I know that Franchesco has improved the CM22 in each further production as we keep giving him feedback. It is the pistol I used at the last 2 commonwealth games and world champs.
Most of the work was needed after the ISSF changed the malfunction rule, at competition you need a super reliable pistol/ammo combination.
You cannot win if you malfunction out.

MG2-owner
Guest





Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 11:50 am Post subject: Re: CM 22

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I will receive my new CM22 RF alu in the near future. "Reliable sourses have stated the "new generation" of CM 22s have improved much in reliability. (but this thread brings some worries about that...).

Francesco hasn't slept since reading of your intention to become a Morini CM22RF owner..........funnily enough, I have slept quite well.

Ok I have spent some time with this gun now and this is what I have found

The malfunction happens enough to be annoying and has the potential to take you out of a match. It normally happens on the first round as it is fed into the chamber, it looks like the next round in the magazine pushes up too hard and the first round gets jammed against the top of the receiver and doesn't feed all the way in, sometimes the rim gets jammed behind the feeding ramp but not always, other times it is the upward pressure creating an angle that won't allow the round to feed straight into the chamber.

Polishing the chamber won't fix it as it seems to be the upward pressure of the mag/or rounds in the mag causing the jam. You can increase the chance of the malfunction by pushing the magazine upwards while releaseing the slide.

This is 80%-90% of the malfunctions for this particular gun, it also has some malfunctions during firing but I was unable to observe those today.

I would be interested in hearing if others have experienced this and what their diagnosis is, I am not sure I am 100% correct. The next step would be to look at relieving the pressure, the obvious way is with moving the slot that engages the magazine catch upwards so there is more room in the receiver. What are your thoughts?

Regards

Mike

MG2-owner wrote:[
Not that easy, sorry. MG2s have hardly any second hand value in Scandinavia. Impossible to trade them off. I am stuck with it :-(

I expect my new Morini to do faily well.

(Thanks for your consern, anyway).

So, the gun is for sale? In Sweden? I might be ready for a challange....
Would 2000SKR make you happy?

Kent

Mikey wrote:Ok I have spent some time with this gun now and this is what I have found

The malfunction happens enough to be annoying and has the potential to take you out of a match. It normally happens on the first round as it is fed into the chamber, it looks like the next round in the magazine pushes up too hard and the first round gets jammed against the top of the receiver and doesn't feed all the way in, sometimes the rim gets jammed behind the feeding ramp but not always, other times it is the upward pressure creating an angle that won't allow the round to feed straight into the chamber.

Polishing the chamber won't fix it as it seems to be the upward pressure of the mag/or rounds in the mag causing the jam. You can increase the chance of the malfunction by pushing the magazine upwards while releaseing the slide.

This is 80%-90% of the malfunctions for this particular gun, it also has some malfunctions during firing but I was unable to observe those today.

Mike

I think there has been a question about magazine.
Can you measure between the "lips" and how high the cartridge will go at the back. From the sqare hole at the back. Use e-mail!
Hope to solve your problem.

Kent

Mikey wrote:Ok I have spent some time with this gun now and this is what I have found

The malfunction happens enough to be annoying and has the potential to take you out of a match. It normally happens on the first round as it is fed into the chamber, it looks like the next round in the magazine pushes up too hard and the first round gets jammed against the top of the receiver and doesn't feed all the way in, sometimes the rim gets jammed behind the feeding ramp but not always, other times it is the upward pressure creating an angle that won't allow the round to feed straight into the chamber.

Polishing the chamber won't fix it as it seems to be the upward pressure of the mag/or rounds in the mag causing the jam. You can increase the chance of the malfunction by pushing the magazine upwards while releaseing the slide.

This is 80%-90% of the malfunctions for this particular gun, it also has some malfunctions during firing but I was unable to observe those today.

I would be interested in hearing if others have experienced this and what their diagnosis is, I am not sure I am 100% correct. The next step would be to look at relieving the pressure, the obvious way is with moving the slot that engages the magazine catch upwards so there is more room in the receiver. What are your thoughts?

Regards

Mike

If the first round is not well placed, then this kind of problems can occur. I do not think that it has something to do with the pressure since the magazine can contain/work with six rounds. Does the problem happen with the two magazines ?

This is at least what happens with the latest RF version. It would be useful to kinow what version of pistol it is and how old it is.

This gun is less than 6 months old and is the new CM22RF version, not sure of the exact age but definitely the latest model and a new gun.

The malfunction occurs with the two magazines that came with the gun and a third magazine that has been borrowed and is being modified.

The 'lips' of the magazine have been compressed to hold the rounds further into the magazine, as well as smoothing the top of the magazine follower. These modifications were done by someone else and have made any difference.

Mike

Mikey wrote:Ok I have spent some time with this gun now and this is what I have found

The malfunction happens enough to be annoying and has the potential to take you out of a match. It normally happens on the first round as it is fed into the chamber, it looks like the next round in the magazine pushes up too hard and the first round gets jammed against the top of the receiver and doesn't feed all the way in,

Did this happen with several brands of ammunitions, did you try several brands/types ?

I have observed that some ammunitions are slightly bigger than others and must be pushed harder to enter the chamber.

This happens with CCI standard. They do not cause malfunctions in my pistol but are must be pushed hard to be loaded and are pretty difficult to extract if not fired. They are also too big for my Hammerli 160 free pistol: same problem, it is possible to load them by pushing hard but then the extraction (even when fired) is difficult.

I have no problems with RWS (excepted that they generated more dirt => more cleaning needed) and SK.

You can check the ammunition by inserting one round manually in the pistol: RWS, SK enter and can be extracted without any effort, CCI must be pushed and are difficult to extract.


I read that you modified your magazines. Mine didn't require any modifications.

There is also the possibility to adjust the pressure of the slider spring (no need to adjust it on my pistol, factory setting was OK).