TargetTalk

I think i have found a place in auz that is selling Blow-Out compensators. I am going to get one and put it on my toz. has any1 used one on a cm162 air pistol. If so do you think it makes the muzzle flip any better than with the factory compensator

I was also interrested by this compensator, after enquiry, I was told that they only have it for the CM84E.

Irosa compensator is available for a wide range of free pistols (CM84E, Hammerli, TOZ).

My impression is that compensators are primarily intended to strip away the propelling gases from behind the pellet/bullet/projectile immediately after the pellet is discharged from the barrel. The result is a potential improvement in accuracy as the continued pressure exerted by the expanding gases pushes the pellet with out the stabilization provide by the barrel.

Muzzle flip is not the reason for the compensator.

The laws of physics require that there must be an equal and opposite reaction to the pellet and propellant gases in the air pistol. But this is a very small force and modern air pistols are designed low barrel positions etc. resulting in a very negligible force.

I might suggest that you consider the possibility that if muzzle flip is a problem; or noticeable, that the movement is actually coming YOU. That you are pulling too hard with the trigger finger or more probably have a reflex action in your wrist, quite small, but just enough to be perceived as muzzle flip.

And, in fact, you will improve your shooting but concentrated effort on staying stable.

Pete:

Spot on as usual.

Gasses exiting immediatly behind the skirt upsetting the pellet as it leaves the barrel are a problem that can (and should) be addressed by bleeding/redirecting those gasses before/as the skirt clears the muzzle.

The problem of "flip" (on a .22 or smaller caliber?!?!) tends to be more of *human* problem and can be solved with training and technique.

Mechanical solutions, while appealing, generally involve moving the center of gravity of the system forward.

The best of both worlds, of course, is a muzzle heavy pistol with a compensator that redirects the gasses upward and to the rear, in such a way so that the pressure behind the projectile goes to zero just as the projectile clears the muzzle.

And

In such a way that the gasses exactly dampen the rotational inertia created by the vector of the "recoil" force being above the center of mass of the gun/hand.

Well, ohhhhhhh . . . . kaaaaaaay . . .

Is there some confusion between compensator and muzzle brake here? Also, some of the science of muzzle 'flip' has been explored in another, recent thread.

Its not Human error as with some other pcp air pistols the muzzle flip is basicly non existant. It is fairly commom knowledge that the morini has more than some others as the barrel line is higher than some others. the compensator is designed to make it more accurate but also has an affect on reducing muzzle flip some are better at this than others

I'm assuming there is a .22 caliber model,as your picture shows a .177 AP example

Muffo wrote:Its not Human error as with some other pcp air pistols the muzzle flip is basicly non existant. It is fairly commom knowledge that the morini has more than some others as the barrel line is higher than some others. the compensator is designed to make it more accurate but also has an affect on reducing muzzle flip some are better at this than others

The LP10 has no muzzle flip because of the porting (the laser cut holes in the barrel),and to a lesser extent the absorber, it has nothing to do with a compensator. The compensator main purpose is to strip the gas away from the pellet upon exit of the barrel.

I agree.The main thing with a compensator,especially in a Free Pistol,is how easily is it cleaned out and the fact it potentially has the ability to extract the last bit of accuracy out of most brands of ammo. The final test of ammo,of course,is to test at 50 yards. On my CM-84E-I installed the Blow-Out compensator,made by Ronnie Nilsson,and it works great.

Yes, but shooting Ronny Nilsson's comp (that's what it is on the pic above - bought a early model from him last year, he's a great guy!) is quite interesting - the gas is in fact pushing against the rear face of the front part, and it does make for a different feeling. Don't know if it's better, but at least it makes everybody else stare :-)

Several years ago, there was a long discussion here about compensators on air pistols. Somebody wrote that the Pardini K2 had none because Pardini had conducted extensive studies and found no benefit. Now the K10 comes along with a comp on its snout. Does anybody know the facts? Has Pardini seen the light and accepted that comps work? Or have they jumped on the bandwagon and decided that a comp makes the product easier to sell?

jsealc21 wrote:I'm assuming there is a .22 caliber model,as your picture shows a .177 AP example

Yeh its made for the cm162 and the cm84. I am going to modify the toz 35 to put one on so i can improve the accuracy. Just trying to find out the affect it has on the feel of the gun as to whether i buy it for the morini as I am more interested in the affect it would have as a muzzle break rather than a compensator. The gains it would have ove the morini compensator would be negligable

This is taken off the morini sight
"Muzzle compensator fitted as standard to eliminate barrel flip."

Muffo wrote:

jsealc21 wrote:I'm assuming there is a .22 caliber model,as your picture shows a .177 AP example

Yeh its made for the cm162 and the cm84.

And only for those two pistols, answer I got from Interprodukter on my request for a Hammerli version.

There are of course two models: one for .177 (CM162) and one for .22 (CM84E)

This is quoted from a former USAS team member and Olympian in reply the last time we got into this discussion and I base my statement heavily on this quote:

[quote="aurorapolice02_11"]Of course the pistol will have a slight movement. To the rear. The equations validate that argument. However, I still believe an AP does not move as much as people think.

AN AIR PISTOL BEING FIRED, WILL NOT DISRUPT THE SIGHTS...provided it is not a spring action type ; )

I have made this argument before. When living at the Olympic Training Center, I had this argument with Erich. He told me the gun will not move and if it does, it was my fault.

He had me shoot an entire tin of pellets into the backstop, only working on trigger control and looking at the front sight directly. Not aiming the gun downrange. I'll be damned...the smoother the trigger release was, the less movement of the front sight. If the trigger control was smooth, the front sight moved no more than my natural hold.

WOW, I need a lot of training :-)
Cheers Peter

PETE S wrote:This is quoted from a former USAS team member and Olympian in reply the last time we got into this discussion and I base my statement heavily on this quote:

aurorapolice02_11 wrote:Of course the pistol will have a slight movement. To the rear. The equations validate that argument. However, I still believe an AP does not move as much as people think.

AN AIR PISTOL BEING FIRED, WILL NOT DISRUPT THE SIGHTS...provided it is not a spring action type ; )

I have made this argument before. When living at the Olympic Training Center, I had this argument with Erich. He told me the gun will not move and if it does, it was my fault.

He had me shoot an entire tin of pellets into the backstop, only working on trigger control and looking at the front sight directly. Not aiming the gun downrange. I'll be damned...the smoother the trigger release was, the less movement of the front sight. If the trigger control was smooth, the front sight moved no more than my natural hold.

The pistol moves, every pistol moves because the projectile moves unless somehow they have suspended the laws of physics. Simple as that, anyone who argues that point needs to go back to grade school science class.

As to the amount of movement and the perception of the movement that depends on many factors, many of which have to do with the shooter and some that have to do with the design of the firearm or air pistol.

And no movement is not essentially a good thing in itself - see the Nestruev interview where he talks about adjusting the absorber on his LP10 to give the pistol a bit of feedback...

I've stood directly behind some of the top shooters in the world and was amazed at the amount of movement that even I could see from behind them. After seeing that I really stopped thinking about it.

My father always tells me about a guy who was sellected as our olympic rep 2 time and when he shot it looked like he he couldnt even hold the black he shook so bad