TargetTalk

Well, I want to open a thread on them, but am not exactly sure how to best write it... or maybe I have too many aspects in mind ;-).

The good thing is that shooting (and archery, too) are at all present in the program of the forthcoming First Youth Olympic Games. Disciplines of the former will be Air Pistol and Air Rifle, each for boys and girls, age bracket 16.5 to 18.5 years. Full program (60 resp. 40 shots).

The not so good things... oh well, that would be a longer list. But before I put my rocking chair high up on the soapbox, let me rather ask for your additional subjective input?

Alexander

Here is a very instructive comparative oversight of all the sports disciplines covered in the 2010 First Youth Olympic Games, together with their qualificaion rules, numbers of participants, age group, amount of uiniversality places:

http://www.aiba.org/documents/site1/Eve ... %20ENG.pdf

Alexander

Thanks for the link and info! Definately something to look forward to in the next couple years..

One thing I noticed in the link is that under shooting i just see 10M air shooting. Is there any other disciplies (shotgun, 3p, prone??)

Dear Jordan: no, just 10 metres air rifle (60 shots for boys, 40 girls) and 10 metres static air pistol (60 / 40).

This is indeed problematic in my eyes, because the ISSF discipline "10 metres Five Shot Air Pistol" would IMO be much more suitable for the specific spirit and intent of the Youth Olympic Games. They do not want to be and must not be just a mini-olympics or another mini world cup, but ISSF has not yet understood this.

Alexander

I am now getting a bit of input from South Africa. Of course nothing from USA Shooting - they cannot be bothered with something like the Youth Olympic Games.

Can they EVER be bothered by responding to ANYTHING? I doubt it. Sleepy fruitbats with the usual attitude problems.

Alexander

re 10m only - Singapore has an excellent 10m facility. only 16 bays for 50m?

re 5-shot 10m pistol - how many countries shoot this event; whereas most shoot 10m pistol and rifle

Spencer

Spencer wrote:re 5-shot 10m pistol - how many countries shoot this event; whereas most shoot 10m pistol and rifle

This is a very good argument, Spencer, if you look at it only from the established shooter's viewpoint. But exactly this is - IMHO - the weak point.

The very intent and idea of the Youth Olymopic Games is something very different; it's NOT a mini shooting worldcup for juniors. No wonder that ISSF has not understood it - or rather did not want to.

Alexander

would the events to be included in the games be decided by the ISSF, or (the more likely case) the bidding country?

Spencer

The latter would have been the most unlikely of all cases.

While the nominal decision indeed did rest with the IOC, in practice its Executive Committee in December 2008 - around the 15th or 18th - acted upon the recommendation or suggestion of the international federations, such as the ISSF.

Alexander

Alexander wrote:Dear Jordan: no, just 10 metres air rifle (60 shots for boys, 40 girls) and 10 metres static air pistol (60 / 40).

This is indeed problematic in my eyes, because the ISSF discipline "10 metres Five Shot Air Pistol" would IMO be much more suitable for the specific spirit and intent of the Youth Olympic Games. They do not want to be and must not be just a mini-olympics or another mini world cup, but ISSF has not yet understood this.

Alexander

Sounds good but niether of these events have been adopted by any sizable number of NGB's and would require the participants to outlay a couple thousand dollars just to shoot this event, not a very realistic expectation.

Alexander wrote:The latter would have been the most unlikely of all cases...

Not in my experience.
For ISSF World Cups, and World Championships the events included are set - for other 'games', the ISSF events included (if any!) are subject to some interesting processes

Alexander wrote:...While the nominal decision indeed did rest with the IOC, in practice its Executive Committee in December 2008 - around the 15th or 18th - acted upon the recommendation or suggestion of the international federations, such as the ISSF

and these recommendations would have been based on the host bid.

Spencer

Spencer wrote:

Alexander wrote:...While the nominal decision indeed did rest with the IOC, in practice its Executive Committee in December 2008 - around the 15th or 18th - acted upon the recommendation or suggestion of the international federations, such as the ISSF

and these recommendations would have been based on the host bid.

Once again, your assessment as to Singapore is wrong.

The facilities of a hosting city may limit the eligibility of certain disciplines (take running boar as an example, or 300 metres rifle as a worse one), but in the case of the YOG, it was pretty predetermined from the outset which disciplines could at all be eligible, and the determining factors had NOTHING AT ALL to do with Singapore.

The ISSF's overwhelming consideration was to select disciplines which would be accessible to as many juvenile shooters (under quite different legal regimes as to firearms laws) as possible. This would effectively have precluded any cartridge firearms discipline.

Alexander

Alexander,

you are obviously very passionate about something to do with the Youth Olympic Games - which particular windmill/s are you tilting at?

Spencer

Spencer wrote:you are obviously very passionate about something to do with the Youth Olympic Games - which particular windmill/s are you tilting at?

The windmill - and it might very well be one, I will have to ascertain whether there is perchance a short stocky chap riding on a donkey at my side :-) - is the one that Richard identified.

He brought a counter-argument that seems very weighty; I'll have to think about it. So far, Richard's and my view seem to represent two different, and certainly both valid perspectives; one entirely immanent and remaining within this narrower frame of reference, the other also embodying an external viewpoint.

Alexander

Alexander, I have nothing against the inclusion of Rapid Fire Air Events, but a quick look at the facts shows why they wouldn't be included in a major games for the first time

1. Air Pistol/Rifle is shot in a vast majority of countries, which ensures a large participation base.
2. Most countries already have the facilities to shoot AP/AR ( from a training point of view). This too goes to a large participation base.
3. Rapid Fire AP requires further investment in equipment (five target event)
4. Requires a substantial outlay of funds for competition quality five shot air pistols. This would be a large stumbling block as it would exclude many from participating because they couldn't justify buying a $2000 pistol for a single event.


As for the 5 shot events we have in the past shot them at both the Nationals and the Grand Prix in Canada, they have been dropped from both events this past year.

I fear the five shot events are going to disappear unless the ISSF steps up and includes them at World Cups and such. If the ISSF doesn't support them I don't think you can expect to see much growth in the participation level.

Does anyone happen to know the age restrictions with shooting in the games? I believe the general age restriction is 14-18 but remember reading somewhere that for shooting it was 17-18 (must be born in 92 or 93 I believe). Anyone have info on this?

Jordan F. wrote:Does anyone happen to know the age restrictions with shooting in the games? I believe the general age restriction is 14-18 but remember reading somewhere that for shooting it was 17-18 (must be born in 92 or 93 I believe). Anyone have info on this?

Must be born between 1.1.1992 and 31.12.1993.

Alexander

Why, do you think, did the YOG controlling body put a very specific range of qualified ages? Would this not disenfranchise/discriminate against younger shooters who can qualify for the event. For example youth who are just a few months short of the lower age limit would never be able to compete in these games since they would be too old when the next YOG is held 4 years later. I have a daughter who shoots avg 392/400 in air rifle but alas she would be a few months too young to compete in 2010 but in 2014 she would be too old, heh heh!!

I am also curious about the age limit. I a eligable fine (make cut by 19 days!) but I know of a couple shooters in Canada right now that that will be a few months too young and would be excellent choices. Maybe it has something to do with the regulations in Singapore?

The age frame was pre-set by the IOC. Within the four years, cohorts of two years were formed in most sports diciplines, with the sole exceptions of a one-year cohort for football, women's artistic gymnastics and (women's) rhythmic gymnastics. See my AIBA link above.

I agree that such necessarily fixed limits are always problematic at the borders.

Alexander