TargetTalk

Hi guys,

After a very disappointing two years at shooting AP, I've decided to start from scratch. This means I want to rebuild my foundation and start over from zero, like a beginner.

I have 2 years during which I will have occasional access to my gun - probably about once a week.

I would like to know what I can do to best get myself up to speed.

So far, my list looks something like this:
- Strength training
- Dry-firing
- Mental work (competition stress was one of my largest flaws)
- Technique (specifics on this would be useful...)
- Stamina

I have never been that great, physically. After analyzing the last competition I shot at, I realised that my two main flaws was on endurance and strength, as well as my mental strength, and so my list of things to work on focuses on those two areas.

Apart from what I've listed above, what can I do to get the best of out the next two years, with limited gun access? Also, how do I squeeze the most out of each training session?

Thanks!

Starting from scratch to me sounds like practising ...Stance ,Grip , Sight picture , breathing, Trigger release , and follow through. Every time my game drops, it is usually because a bad habit has crept into one of the basic principles.

Hi Fred,
I don't know why you only have once a week access to an AP. If this is not your AP I suggest you get your own. If you are cash poor, it would be wise to do something to raise dough to purchase one. You will never reach your full potential handling a pistol once a week. You may get discouraged because of your lack of improvement with such limited training sessions.

While you are raising money to purchase the pistol, do some major stength and endurance training and throw in some mental training as well. If you do MAJOR strenth training after never having done it before, you will be adding mental training automatically. Get mentally tough physically. Have you had health issues that kept you from being physically fit?

If you can't possibly have access to a pistol more than once a week, I would still go for the physical training and try to get something to hold that is like your AP---even if you have to make one out of wood. Have the option of adding weight to build endurance.
HTH
Good luck!
Ben

Hi, Back in the late 90's I developed a tremor in my shooting arm that made slow fire shooting impossible. After 2 years of sulking I decided to start shooting left handed. I then came up with the idea of starting over ( like I never shot before). I took lessons from a high master (Ron Steinbrecher) that started with the basic fundamentals of shooting. Ron might have "notes" out there on a Bullseye site to view. Ron's teaching of the fundamentals helped me Re-Start my pistol shooting. Worth every $. Start with the basics and then fine tune your shot process. Remember the good shots and how you acheived them, don't dwell on negitive thoughts....Remember, your starting with a clean slate!

Rob wrote:Ron might have "notes" out there on a Bullseye site to view.

He might...(smile)

I just happen to have some of Ron's series on my web site. This is stuff he posted to the Bullseye-L forum a few years ago.

Ron's Introduction to the series
STANCE
GRIP
BREATH CONTROL
AIMING AND SIGHT ALIGNMENT
TRIGGER CONTROL
FOLLOW THROUGH
EXTRA - Red Dot Scopes

They're all on one somewhat short page, so I'll just give the page link:

Ron Steinbrecher's Articles on Fundamentals as posted to the Bullseye List

Take Care,
Ed Hall
Air Force Shooting Homepage
Bullseye (and International) Competition Things

Hi,

Thanks for all the responses.

The part about running through the basics as the foundation for my training sounds good, I'll have to keep that in mind.

I've taken up a temporary job (yeah, 2 years, I know, I know, but times are tough) that has me travelling to all sorts of places, which most probably won't have a range. I do have my own gun (Steyr LP10) but obviously I'll only be able to shoot with it when I get back, which is roughly around once a week.

Physical training shouldn't be a problem, I intend to do intensive running and strengths training (push ups, chin ups etc) so that shouldn't be a problem. No pre-existing conditions stop me from training physically, I'm just a lazy ass. But my colleague is a health nut, so I've roped him in to help push me a little.

I'm still a little concerned about the mental training though. How do I build up mental resilience? Physical training doesn't really help mental toughness, does it?

Rob and Ed, thanks for the recommendations, that one's definitely going into my bookmark list.

Fred wrote:. . . Physical training doesn't really help mental toughness, does it?

Rob and Ed, thanks for the recommendations, that one's definitely going into my bookmark list.

Yes it does, Fred. Don't take this wrong, but laziness comes from lack of mental toughness. One must make the decision to get off the couch and work up a sweat. Once the pain starts, one must continue working.

There are similar challenges going on at a match. Putting the pistol down after holding too long is a mental decision {as is most of shooting}. The shot sequence must start over and if one is too lazy to do that, performance will greatly suffer. Discipline is important.

Is it possible for you to take your pistol with you while traveling to do dry fire and holding exercises?
Ben

Great links and info (as usual) from Ed.

Terra-Dittos on Bens' comment.

Serious training on fundamentals does not "require" live fire at a shooting range- somewhat counterintuitively, "live fire" will more likely slow your progress.

Figure out what the fundamentals are.

Figure out what your desired behavioral outcomes are with respect to the fundamentals.

Train yourself to properly execute those behaviors that result in achieving the desired outcomes.

You can do all of the above much easier and faster if you *don't* punch any holes in paper.

Holes in paper are an indirect (at best) side effect of your doing the right things, and doing them right.

Good Luck!

Great comments so far guys, thanks!

I'm looking to start from my mental training, before moving on to the actual 'firing' process. My gameplan looks something like this
- Meditation for focusing the mind
- Detailing out the shot process, and visualizing it so completely that I'm immersed in the experience
- Mental willpower and control (still got no idea how to work this one out though)
- Mentally repeating the triggering process, until I'm confident that I can trigger off smoothly

In the meantime, I'll not touch the pistol at all, instead working on my physical abilities. Stamina and strength, as mentioned earlier, are my main priorities. I intend to concentrate on running (~2 miles?) and dips / push ups.

Only when I'm sure that my mental state and physical fitness have reached an acceptable level, will I go back to pistolling. Starting with dry-fire for ~1.5hours and ~0.5hours of live-fire (as a reward, dry firing does get boring...)

Unfortunately it's impossible to take it around with me, for two reasons
- My brother uses the same pistol (though thankfully not changing the sights or trigger adjustments)
- I don't think many people would be comfortable with me carrying a gun around in the boot...

Ben - Now I see the link between mental and physical - you're talking about pushing myself past my limits and letting my mental will and discipline carry me forward. Do I read you correctly? If so, I think stamina training (running) would be more beneficial than weights training (which is boring, and not really about endurance to me) because the longer the distances I run, the tougher it is to keep going.

Steve - Your post about the desired behavioural outcomes is something I'm indeed aware and conscious of. My problem comes in the execution and visualization.

Firstly, execution - when carrying out the shot motions, I just go through it automatically, without much conscious effort. The conscious takes over from the sub-conscious just before the aiming period. I recognize that it's not the proper way to do it, but I can't seem to break the habit.

Secondly, visualization - many posts on this forum talk about visualizing the shot process. I can't seem to wrap my mind around the concept. Maybe the impression of the sight picture isn't clear enough in my head, but when visualizing the process, I tend to compartmentalize. That is, I don't seem to be able to link each action to the next, but rather think of them as separate, distinct actions. What's worse, I seem detached from the entire experience. I can't connect fully with the visualization process, and my mind can't seem to form an adequate impression or mental picture for me to hold on to.

How would you reinforce positive behaviours and actions?

"Firstly, execution - when carrying out the shot motions, I just go through it automatically, without much conscious effort. The conscious takes over from the sub-conscious just before the aiming period. I recognize that it's not the proper way to do it, but I can't seem to break the habit."

Hmm- this is trouble (IMHO). Sounds like the exact opposite from what many of us have been yakking about for years. You want to have a fully managed shot process that creates teh optimum conditions right up unitl the initial settle . . . and then have the subconscious take over. Not the other way around.

Do you see how this could be a) critical; b) counter-intuitive; and c) actually the "right" (better) way to do it?

**** SNIPPAGE ****

"How would you reinforce positive behaviours and actions?"

Identify what it is you are trying to do- break the process down into individual elements that fit together to result in the overall desired process- identify skill performance (technique) patterns that will result in the smaller skill being executed properly- train on those individual elements to improve performance on them first in pieces, then as a larger process.

The same method used for developing world-class athletes in any sport.

But the above is all gobbledegook to you if you don't accept the original premise.

Have you had an opportunity to follow any of the "shot process" threads from 4-12 months ago? Search on Ed Hall- Bill Horton- Rouslan Diatlov- and others.

Some very heated discussion.

It inevitably becomes an "either you accept it or you don't" thing for a lot of folks.

I mean I'm really not trying to be obtuse on purpose here- I just don't want to get in the middle of the whole sh*&storm again . . .

I believe Steve is talking about skill sets at the highest level of our sport / passion, and each of us must work through the skills necessary to deliver a controled shot on the target. Get your hands on the pistol shooters manual developed by the shooters at the USAMTU. It is available through the CMP. They have an intern net address and are located at Camp Perry . It only costs a couple of bucks. Look up Ed Halls ideas and concepts on mental control on this forum. Follow the guidance in the USAMU manual and you will be able to avoid most of the traps that would hender your masterey of the fundamentals. The most difficult concept to master is the subconcious trigger release of the shot. Please use the steadily increasing method of trigger control and if you presevere one day that may come to pass. By then you will already be a high master just using the method of trogger control I have described. Once trigger is under controll you must learn to concentrate totally on perfecting sight allignment and maintain that concentration until the pistol has fired. Every thing else necessary to fire that controled shot we have been discussing will through dedicated practice and training sessions become so much an ingrained habit that little or no thought has to be devoted to preparation befor firing the shot. One additional thought, Concentrate on what you have to do to fire the shot and avoid letting your mind wander into those things that do not contribute to controling the shot. Simplify, Simplify , Simplify , Study whar Steve has posted ! As your skills increase , his writtings will be of great help. Good Shooting Bill Horton

In rereading the above post I made a serious mistake. The thinge you do not have to spend much effort thinking about are stance position grip and breath control. The time just before firing the shot should be used to review you shot sequence, then raise the pistol and execute the sequence you have just revued. Keep all thoughts totally positive. Good Shooting Bill Horton

Hi guys,

Just returned from one of those trips, and I can definitely say that I won't have a chance to train. In fact, I barely had enough energy to get on with my exercise. Road trips really drain the heck outta you...

Steve:
I realise that this is a problem, and a big one. My question therefore, is how to correct this. I understand that the release is meant to be sub-conscious, but what can I do to condition my sub-conscious mind to take over the shot process?

Your point about breaking down the shot process into smaller bits - does this mean that I individually train up the proficiency of each part of the process, and focus, for example, on the triggering technique as a part rather than the shot process as a whole?

Bill:
I'm afraid you lost me at the "use the steadily increasing method of trigger control" part. I don't really understand what this means; I had always thought that allowing your sub-conscious mind to take over would mean releasing the hold that your conscious mind has on the trigger... Could you elaborate more?

As usual people, these comments are very helpful and greatly appreciated. Thanks!

The steadily increasing method of trigger control starts with a mental signal to the trigger finger to initiate a steadily increasing pressure on the trigger and never signalling the pressure to slow or stop bassed on what your eye is seeing relating to hold or the perfection of sight allignment. This will allow you to discharge the shot without disturbing stillness of hold or miss alligning the sghts so long as the pressure is straight to the rear. This is the method that allows you to fire the shot within your abillity to hold. There is no attempt to pick a moment where you think the sights and pistol are alligned on the exact center of your aiming area and try to make the pistol fire during that fleeting moment. Now, a question for you. How do you know that the subconcious trigger control method is working ? Good Shooting Bill Horton

Yes, of course- the whole purpose of breaking the process down into smaller parts is so that you can "perfect" the individual parts. Better to work on developing the underlying skill as an element, than to keep flailing away trying to "improve everything at the same time!"

So

- Drills for perfecting trigger control
- Drills for perfecting sight alignment

Then

- Drills for perfecting sight alignment while perfecting trigger control

Then

- Drills for perfecting sight alignment while perfecting trigger control with a distraction bull

Then

- Drills for perfecting sight alignment while perfecting trigger control with a distraction bull, under adverse conditions

Think of it as a "pyramid" of skills, with the small individual elements near the bottom and delivering an infinite number of perfect shots in the cold, windy rain with a sucking chest would and blind in the shooting eye at th peak . . .