TargetTalk

Hi all

Are there any competitions I could use an 8 shot magazined CO2 pistol in ? Like - Standard pistol, falling plates, anything? I fancy some of these but they all seem to be based on 5 shots, which sounds like an LP50 or nothing. I am not sure if you can load 5 pellets in an 8 shot mag, or the mag cannot have a capacity of over 5. But perhaps I am missing something...

cheers

Ed

Provided that it complies with the pistol specifications set out in the ISSF 5 Shot Pistol Rules, sometimes known as the "8.20 Rules", then I cannot see a problem.

You might also like to look at The British Pistol Club's competition rules.

I can think of no reason why an 8-shot should not be allowed in BPC competitions (including the full range of 25m events), but would doubt whether they would be competitive.

Don't forget that you also have the NSRA British Championship meeting next week (although you will have a late entry fee).

You will probably find more information by asking on the Stirton Forum here in the UK.

Thanks for that David, I wonder if I could use my LP2 for the precision part and then Rohm Trainer for the speed section, or if you must use a single pistol for the whole thing?

I'll see if I can find out from Stirton too

cheers

Ed

edster99 wrote:Thanks for that David, I wonder if I could use my LP2 for the precision part and then Rohm Trainer for the speed section, or if you must use a single pistol for the whole thing?

It's certainly NOT allowed at BPC matches and I doubt if any other meeting organisers would allow it. Even though we obviously cannot stick strictly to ISSF rules (no cartridge pistols except "Free"), most will follow the rules as closely as possible:-

Rule 8.4.1.1.1 "The shooter must use the same pistol in all stages and series of an event unless it ceases to function (see Malfunction Rules 8.8.0)."

OK, thanks for clearing that up. Hmmm... that sounds expensive!

But the opposite is allowed and possible: use an LP50 (or equivalent from FWB P58 or older ones like LP5, P56, P55, 5 shots CO2...) to shoot precision (using a single shot magazine) and speed (using the 5 shot magazine).

The only disadvantage will be the trigger of the 5 shots pistol that is not so good as the one of the equivalent single shot precision pistols like the LP10, P44...

Well surely that's the only option? If you need one pistol to do it, and it has to have 5 shots, its a multishot of some type that you use in single shot mode as well. Its an expensive upgrade from a Rohm Trainer to an LP5 or an FWB P55, even if I can find one! Maybe i'll try a 20 shot set with my Rohm and see how close I can get to my normal scores.

Still it would be a great excuse to buy one :)

cheers

Ed

edster99 wrote:Well surely that's the only option? If you need one pistol to do it, and it has to have 5 shots, its a multishot of some type that you use in single shot mode as well.

If you have a look at The British Pistol Club's competition rules you will see that we have made allowances to enable people to use a single shot in the 25m (Sport) Pistol event.

It is not ideal and requires a different technique but you would be amazed at the scores that can be reached.

Hi David

went to the link on the BPC site to the ISSF rules but didn't take me anywhere... Whats the basic format of 25m Sport?

cheers

Ed

edster99 wrote:Hi David

went to the link on the BPC site to the ISSF rules but didn't take me anywhere... Whats the basic format of 25m Sport?

cheers

Ed

30 shots precision, 30 shots rapid.

Precision is 6 series of 5 shots in 5 minutes per series.
Rapid is 6 series, 7 seconds target edged, 3 seconds targets faced, 5 exposures per series, 1 shot per exposure.
Both stages are preceeded by a sighting series in the stage timing.

The ISSF have recently revamped their site and the pages have changed. The Pistol Rules are here.
The General Technical Rules are here.

David Levene wrote:

edster99 wrote:Well surely that's the only option? If you need one pistol to do it, and it has to have 5 shots, its a multishot of some type that you use in single shot mode as well.

If you have a look at The British Pistol Club's competition rules you will see that we have made allowances to enable people to use a single shot in the 25m (Sport) Pistol event.

It is not ideal and requires a different technique but you would be amazed at the scores that can be reached.

Is it single shot AP ? I have already used my LP10 for 25m shooting and indeed, amazing scores are possible (because firearms shooting is only allowed in dedicated shooting ranges while you can shot AP almost anywhere, at home if you like as long as safety is ensured).

Blimey what a lot of rules !

Thnaks David, I appreciate your knowledge and responses!

So if i've got it right -

10m AP Standard Pistol is on a 4/89 (or equivalent) card , 8 sets of 5 in 10 secs each.

Sport Pistol is on a 550mm card - is this a PL14 if i'm on a 20Yd range (50m Pistol card scaled to 20Yds) ?

Sorry to keep firing questions, but you put your head above the parapet... :)
I think that's it now.

cheers

Ed

jipe wrote:

David Levene wrote:

edster99 wrote:Well surely that's the only option? If you need one pistol to do it, and it has to have 5 shots, its a multishot of some type that you use in single shot mode as well.

If you have a look at The British Pistol Club's competition rules you will see that we have made allowances to enable people to use a single shot in the 25m (Sport) Pistol event.

It is not ideal and requires a different technique but you would be amazed at the scores that can be reached.

Is it single shot AP ?

Yes. Most people will use a 5-shot LP5/LP50 but we wanted to encourage those with only a single shot AP to give it a try (we have also got club LP5s they can borrow). They have to be careful not to fumble the pellet when reloading in the rapid series but it is interesting to watch how quickly they develop a new rhythm.

edster99 wrote:10m AP Standard Pistol is on a 4/89 (or equivalent) card , 8 sets of 5 in 10 secs each.

Correct, that is the UK (NSRA) designation.

edster99 wrote:Sport Pistol is on a 550mm card - is this a PL14 if i'm on a 20Yd range (50m Pistol card scaled to 20Yds) ?

No. The UK (NSRA) designation for the 50m/25mtarget scaled from 25m to 20yards is the PL12. The PL14 is an approximation of the 50m/25m target scaled from 50m to 20yards.

It is the PL12 you would use for the precision part of the Sport Pistol event and all of the Standard Pistol event if shooting at 20 yards.
For the rapid part of the Sport pistol event you would need to use a scaled down version of the (UK designation) PL17 25m rapid target. I'm afraid I don't know anyone who prints/sells one of these.

Thanks David,
I have been enlightened! I'll get the club to order some PL12s, and then work out what the nearest equiv to a scaled down PL17 might be (or even make some up myself!!)

best wishes

Ed

- one last questions ! - I suppose you dont know where I could get the dimensions of a PL17 ? Its not in the list of targets in the NSRA Rules and Regs Appendix A (Target Dimensions). Is there an ISSF site that would have those details?

David Levene wrote:

jipe wrote:

David Levene wrote:

edster99 wrote:Well surely that's the only option? If you need one pistol to do it, and it has to have 5 shots, its a multishot of some type that you use in single shot mode as well.

If you have a look at The British Pistol Club's competition rules you will see that we have made allowances to enable people to use a single shot in the 25m (Sport) Pistol event.

It is not ideal and requires a different technique but you would be amazed at the scores that can be reached.

Is it single shot AP ?

Yes. Most people will use a 5-shot LP5/LP50 but we wanted to encourage those with only a single shot AP to give it a try (we have also got club LP5s they can borrow). They have to be careful not to fumble the pellet when reloading in the rapid series but it is interesting to watch how quickly they develop a new rhythm.

Is it really possible to shoot 5 shots in 10s with a single shot AP, i.e. about two seconds to lower the pistol, open the breech, put a pellet, close the breech, raise the pistol and shoot ? Never tried that, but will try !

jipe wrote:Is it really possible to shoot 5 shots in 10s with a single shot AP, i.e. about two seconds to lower the pistol, open the breech, put a pellet, close the breech, raise the pistol and shoot ? Never tried that, but will try !

Good luck, it'll be interesting to see if you can do it. ;-)

I was talking about Sport Pistol, not Standard Pistol. ;-) ;-)

David Levene wrote:

jipe wrote:Is it really possible to shoot 5 shots in 10s with a single shot AP, i.e. about two seconds to lower the pistol, open the breech, put a pellet, close the breech, raise the pistol and shoot ? Never tried that, but will try !

Good luck, it'll be interesting to see if you can do it. ;-)

I was talking about Sport Pistol, not Standard Pistol. ;-) ;-)

My misunderstanding. It seemed to me indeed impossible to shoot standard with a single shot !

is it 500g trigger weight for all these 'rapid' events ? Thats where the double action of the ROhm Trainer at about 1.5kg does not help much....

edster99 wrote:is it 500g trigger weight for all these 'rapid' events ? Thats where the double action of the ROhm Trainer at about 1.5kg does not help much....

The 10m Air Pistol Standard and 5-Target events have no minimum trigger weight.

Most UK match organisers seem to have followed the British Pistol Club's lead of having a minimum trigger weight of 500g for the other events. The exception is that we do have an air version of the Centre-Fire match where we (currently) insist on a 1360g trigger.

The reason for the 500g trigger instead of 1000g goes back to the cartridge pistol hand-in (confiscation) in 1997/8. We were determined to offer as many ISSF style events as possible to our members with the minimum of hassle.