TargetTalk

hello i'm a beginner and i need help finding a coach. i live in southern CA and i know it isn't going to be easy. i can't even find a local pistol club in the area. however, i'm not discouraged. any help you can offer me would be greatly appreciated. thank you.

they used to hold matches at the 1984 olympics site called Prado, I don't remember the club name... look at the USAShooting website and find the club database.

WE shoot a monthly PTO (prelim try out, that phrase means "registered match") monthly and state champs in november in Phoenix, plan on coming out and shooting with us, you will not be the only So Kali shooter here. Brenda Shinn is from your neck of the woods, she was in Beijing last week shooting women's sport pistol

also there are several experienced shooters here who can give you some coaching when you come to visit. But finding a local mentor is even better, where in Kali are you?

Poole

Mikio

I’m from Northern California and I use to drive down to shoot the matches put on by the Black mountain Shooting Club at Prado (1984 Olympic shooting venue). The CRO which was also a very good coach, went out of his way to answer questions. I received the following e-mail back in June and I guess it hasn’t been posted here yet:

"Black Mountain Shooting Club

Friends,
Some of you have already heard: We won't be hosting any more monthly matches at Prado Tiro. At least, not any time in the forseeable future. Management has consistently failed to make any accommodation for us in the Air Gun Hall..... It's now essentially a permanent "banquet room". It's been a long, wonderful run. But, as they say, change is inevitable."

I will forward your post to him via e-mail, and hopefully you can meet. You might also check out the City of Commerce. They have a Marksmanship Range: http://www.ci.commerce.ca.us/marksmanrange.htm. I hear their is a small group that is getting together during the week.

CA Bullseye

Bill Poole wrote:they used to hold matches at the 1984 olympics site called Prado, I don't remember the club name... look at the USAShooting website and find the club database.

WE shoot a monthly PTO (prelim try out, that phrase means "registered match") monthly and state champs in november in Phoenix, plan on coming out and shooting with us, you will not be the only So Kali shooter here. Brenda Shinn is from your neck of the woods, she was in Beijing last week shooting women's sport pistol

also there are several experienced shooters here who can give you some coaching when you come to visit. But finding a local mentor is even better, where in Kali are you?

Poole

if i can find a coach Bill you will definitely see me in AZ, but until then i'm a bit discouraged, actually very discouraged, i can't find a club or range to join or practice at, nor could i find Brenda's contact information in the local CA phone registry.

i live in north hollywood, near burbank, where there are indoor firing ranges, but they don't allow air pistol shooting, and the outdoor ranges at distance away, only allows *silhouette* air pistol shooting, so you could say i'm in a fix.

in the meantime, may i ask for recommendations on entry level air pistols for a beginner, preferably non-complicated models, i definitely don't want a CO2 model, not ever, it's not my style, i'm a no frills person, less is more is my motto.

CA Bullseye wrote:Mikio

I’m from Northern California and I use to drive down to shoot the matches put on by the Black mountain Shooting Club at Prado (1984 Olympic shooting venue). The CRO which was also a very good coach, went out of his way to answer questions. I received the following e-mail back in June and I guess it hasn’t been posted here yet:

"Black Mountain Shooting Club

Friends,
Some of you have already heard: We won't be hosting any more monthly matches at Prado Tiro. At least, not any time in the forseeable future. Management has consistently failed to make any accommodation for us in the Air Gun Hall..... It's now essentially a permanent "banquet room". It's been a long, wonderful run. But, as they say, change is inevitable."

I will forward your post to him via e-mail, and hopefully you can meet. You might also check out the City of Commerce. They have a Marksmanship Range: http://www.ci.commerce.ca.us/marksmanrange.htm. I hear their is a small group that is getting together during the week.

ah this explains why i haven't heard from BMSC, thank you for passing my inquiry on to Greg, i posted him myself but no response.

i also left a message with the Bristow Marksmanship Range, asking them to have the Pistol Club contact me, but again no response.

its good that you don't want a CO2 they are no longer made or widely used, CO2 is obsolete, but there are used ones available from time to time.

I would recommend a Morini CM162 or Steyr LP10

i would assert that if you are serious enough to want a coach you are serious enough to get a proper pistol. http://www.pilkguns.com/

there are hand-cockers that are much less expensive but I don't know anything about them.

if you want a back yard plinker check out airguns of arizona (google for them)

I will get Brenda's email to you when I can find it. She lives out in the desert somewhere, san bernardino or some such place, not real sure.

Poole

mikio wrote:
if i can find a coach Bill you will definitely see me in AZ, but until then i'm a bit discouraged, actually very discouraged, i can't find a club or range to join or practice at...
in the meantime, may i ask for recommendations on entry level air pistols for a beginner, preferably non-complicated models, i definitely don't want a CO2 model, not ever, it's not my style, i'm a no frills person, less is more is my motto.

One of the great things about AP is that you do not need a formal range. If you can find 5-10 meters of space in your home that's all you need to learn to shoot.

Having a coach is great, but it is not necessary. Read the AMU Training Guide http://www.bullseyepistol.com/amucover.htm, its principles apply to AP as well as larger caliber pistols. The 'Coaching & Info' section on the Pilkington web site provides a lot of useful information on shooting. See Warren Potter's Hitchhikers Guide http://www.pilkguns.com/hhg.shtml.

The best entry level AP for you is an IZH-46M. This is a single stroke pneumatic pistol (SSP) and does not require CO2 or compressed air. It has an excellent barrel, trigger, and sights and will take you well up into A class.

Jump in. You will enjoy it.

Fred

Bill Poole wrote:I would assert that if you are serious enough to want a coach you are serious enough to get a proper pistol.

I will get Brenda's email to you when I can find it. She lives out in the desert somewhere, san bernardino or some such place, not real sure.

Poole

thank you Bill for your recommendations, and explanations, now i can make a clear cut decision in buying a proper air pistol.

Fred Mannis wrote:One of the great things about AP is that you do not need a formal range. If you can find 5-10 meters of space in your home that's all you need to learn to shoot.

Having a coach is great, but it is not necessary. Read the AMU Training Guide http://www.bullseyepistol.com/amucover.htm, its principles apply to AP as well as larger caliber pistols. The 'Coaching & Info' section on the Pilkington web site provides a lot of useful information on shooting. See Warren Potter's Hitchhikers Guide http://www.pilkguns.com/hhg.shtml.

The best entry level AP for you is an IZH-46M. This is a single stroke pneumatic pistol (SSP) and does not require CO2 or compressed air. It has an excellent barrel, trigger, and sights and will take you well up into A class.

Fred

thank you Fred for your input, i feel much better about purchasing the IZH-46M, and i will look into setting up a range at home, i was told it's against CA law.

in the meantime, would you care to recommend ear and eye protection?

mikio wrote:
thank you Fred for your input, i feel much better about purchasing the IZH-46M, and i will look into setting up a range at home, i was told it's against CA law.

in the meantime, would you care to recommend ear and eye protection?

I am not familiar with CA law, but I would guess that any restrictions that do exist would apply to firearms, not airguns. When you check with your local police make sure they understand that you are enquiring about airgun use at home. And I suggest you use the term airgun, not airpistol. :-)

Some would say that ear protection is needed for air pistol, but I do not think so. I sometimes use ear plugs just to block out noise (TV/radio) and help concentration.

Eye protection when shooting is always a good thing, but again I do not consider it necessary for an air pistol. If you wear glasses normally, you may have to get a special prescription to allow you to focus properly on the front sight.

Fred Mannis wrote:Eye protection when shooting is always a good thing, but again I do not consider it necessary for an air pistol. If you wear glasses normally, you may have to get a special prescription to allow you to focus properly on the front sight.

Over the years I have seen enough pellets come back to consider eye protection very necessary!

Spencer

Fred Mannis wrote:If you wear glasses normally, you may have to get a special prescription to allow you to focus properly on the front sight.

can you elaborate on this Fred i don't understand what you mean?

Spencer wrote:Over the years I have seen enough pellets come back to consider eye protection very necessary! Spencer

thanks Spencer i totally agree!!!

mikio wrote:

Fred Mannis wrote:If you wear glasses normally, you may have to get a special prescription to allow you to focus properly on the front sight.

can you elaborate on this Fred i don't understand what you mean?

Shooting a pistol, you align the notch in the rear sight with the blade of the front sight and aim at the bullseye. It not not possible to focus on all three elements - rear notch, front blade, and target - at the same time. You therefore focus on the front sight while the rear notch and bullseye remain blurry/out of focus. Young people, typically, can focus on the front sight with no problem. Older shooters, or those who wear glasses to correct their vision, find it difficult/not possible to focus on the front sight and therefore cannot achieve the precise alignment of front sight in rear sight required to shoot well. People who do not normally wear glasses can get a 0.5-1.0 diopter lens - basically a low power reading lens - which allows them them to clearly focus on the front sight. Shooters who wear prescription glasses can have their eye doctor make up a prescription that will allow them to focus on the front sight. See http://www.starreloaders.com/edhall/nwongarts.html for more details.

Bill Poole is a good guy to know so if you can, get him to work with you. This may help you to understand the advice about focusing on the front sight, The target is the only thing that doesn't move you dont have to look at it as it will always be right where it is . Its that front sight that you have to watch like a hawk because it is usually moving all the time.. Good Shooting Bill Horton

In CA, whether you can shoot at home or not will also depend on the laws of your specific city. In the law for my city, a pellet gun is classified as a firearm. And you CANNOT discharge a firearm in the city. But there is an exception to the no-discharge law, for a properly constructed range.

As for the glasses. I wear trifocal progressive glasses. These are very difficult to use for AP, as I cannot get a sharp focus on the front sight w/o turning my head up to look out the bottom of my glasses, and getting a crink in my neck. I had to have a special pair of glasses made, where the prescription will let me focus on the front sight...and also see the target. Look for Warren Potters article on shooting glasses.
http://www.pilkguns.com/c16.shtml

Fred.Mannis wrote:See http://www.starreloaders.com/edhall/nwongarts.html for more details.

thanks Fred for the sighting explanation, and the link to proper eyeglass exams, it was helpful, and quite interesting, and thankfully my eye doctor administers the green/red exam.

2650 Plus wrote:Bill Poole is a good guy to know so if you can, get him to work with you.

yes he is a good guy Bill, and yes he is helping me, as much as he can from AZ, i'm in CA, and most appreciative.

GaryN wrote:In CA, whether you can shoot at home or not will also depend on the laws of your specific city.

As for the glasses. I wear trifocal progressive glasses. These are very difficult to use for AP, as I cannot get a sharp focus on the front sight w/o turning my head up to look out the bottom of my glasses, and getting a crink in my neck. I had to have a special pair of glasses made, where the prescription will let me focus on the front sight...and also see the target. Look for Warren Potters article on shooting glasses.

hi Gary in my city there's no target shooting allowed, which is just as well, i have yet to begin the fundamentals of shooting.

thanks for the trifocal heads up, i don't want to be looking thru the bottom of my glasses to see the target, much less the sight.

what type of prescription did you get for shooting, if you don't mind me asking? i'll research the Warren Potters article ASAP.

younger folks can see distance (perhaps with correction) AND bring their focus in close enough to see the front sight or read a book or even closer, as we get older our ability to bring the focus in close degrades, our arms get too short, we need reading glasses to bring the focus in closer. I believe this is cuz the eye muscles get weaker as the lens gets stiffer.

the front sight is just a bit further away than a book so for about a year in your early 40's you can still read but can no longer shoot, then you can't shoot anymore.

Reading glasses are typically +1.00, +1.25, +1.75, +2.50 whatever works for the reader, but rarely can one find +0.50 reading glasses.

for shooting, at least for the first few years, that +0.50 seems to work, then maybe the +0.75 maybe more

in either case the positive diopter correction brings the relaxed-eye focus closer, so the sight or book is in focus with less muscle stress, and distance, (target) is a little blurry

The above is for someone with normal distance vision, or vision corrected with contact lenses to normal distance.

if one wears glasses, quite often there is a spherical correction, usually but not always a - number and an astigmatism correction.

one would have one's eye doctor determine the correct distance correction, then with a stick or something find a decent 20" correction.

for someone in his 40's with modest to no astigmatism and a little nearsightedness it will be about +0.50 different than the distance prescription, that is, about half a diopter LESS NEGATIVE, bringing the focus in closer

get a Knobloch or Olympic style shooting glass, wear it over your normal distance condition (nothing, contacts, street glasses) and put in the +0.50 or +0.75 lens, later your optomitrist should be able to cut a round lense to your prescription offset by what you need.

This is intended as a description of process, not a recommendation for a specific prescription.

bring a stick with a front sight on it you can hold out and focus on with the eye chart off in the distance when you goto your appointment. You may have to train your eye doctor. They tend to be kinda knowledgable, ocassonaly you find one that likes guns but doesn't know how to shoot, my eye doctor said "I'm a shooter too, here..." and handed me a bright yellow toy pistol... WITH NO FRONT SIGHT!!!!" she got some training.

Oh, the dual focus contacts are not usable for shooting.

Poole