Congratulations Jason Turner

James Way · Post by **James Way** » Thu Aug 14, 2008 11:35 pm

After many years, the U. S. has a medalist in pistol shooting. Follow this link.

When I read that Jason Turner and Brian Beaman had a shoot off to determine 4th and 5th place, I thought it was just a formality. I guess not.

Dogchaser · Post by **Dogchaser** » Thu Aug 14, 2008 11:45 pm

I wonder what he was on.

A shame it had to be that way.

Fortitudo Dei · Post by **Fortitudo Dei** » Thu Aug 14, 2008 11:54 pm

I wonder what he was on

Apparently it was this...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propranolol

j-team · Post by **j-team** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 12:05 am

Dogchaser wrote:
A shame it had to be that way.

Yes, although he gets the medal he rightfully deserves, he has been cheated out of the medal ceremony and that can't be replaced.

If you had to pick one country to be doping the shooters, you would have put your money on North Korea wouldn't you!

Dogchaser · Post by **Dogchaser** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 1:11 am

j-team wrote:
Dogchaser wrote:
A shame it had to be that way.
Yes, although he gets the medal he rightfully deserves, he has been cheated out of the medal ceremony and that can't be replaced.

If you had to pick one country to be doping the shooters, you would have put your money on North Korea wouldn't you!

propranolol hydrochloride

I'm glad one of "us" got a medal it just really sucks for any shoooter to get caught cheating from any country.

The same as any strong guy at the gym gets accused of roids, some people may start to look at shooters at the higher levels the same way.

It looks like the drug is used for migranes and high blood pressure. Who would have known it would be an advantage?

gimgim · Post by **gimgim** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 1:19 am

> Who would have known it would be an advantage?

Beta-blockers are traditionally used by shooters, this is not new.

David Levene · Post by **David Levene** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 2:29 am

Dogchaser wrote:It looks like the drug is used for migranes and high blood pressure. Who would have known it would be an advantage?

Are you kidding?

Shooting is one of only two sports (along with Archery) where Beta-Blockers are banned "Out-of-Competition" as well as "In-Competition" by WADA.

In addition, rule 5.5.2.1 makes the ISSF's position perfectly clear:-
"In all ISSF In-Competition Testing it is mandatory to analyze for Beta-Blockers. They are prohibited and no Therapeutic Use Exemptions for Beta-Blockers will be granted or accepted by the ISSF."

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 8:02 am

I'm glad one of "us" got a medal it just really sucks for any shoooter to get caught cheating from any country.

I have to disagree with the last part of the above statement. It is great that this "athlete" was caught cheating. There really is no room in our sport for this kind of thing, especially when it was determined to be a delberate act on the shooters part. I just wish there were a way to conduct a test to prove that the Chinese gymnasts are under-age so they can be disqualified as well. The rules are pretty simple and my expectation is that athletes play by the rules.

AAlex · Post by **AAlex** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 8:19 am

http://www.flickr.com/photos/stretta/2761279122/

I just wish there were a way to conduct a test to prove that the Chinese gymnasts are under-age so they can be disqualified as well.

Saw them in half and count their rings!

But seriously, people found multiple official documents that indicate they are underage, but apparently the passport issued in 2008 is "evidence" that trumps it.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 8:48 am

Of course AAlex...China is a very "honest" country with a proven track record of "integrity". They would never falsify an official government document :-)

Now, on the flip side...perhaps the IOC should consider lowering the minumum age requirement because the bottom line is that the Chinese gymnsats were incredible but that is a decision way above my pay grade.

Steve Swartz · Post by **Steve Swartz** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:14 am

CONGRATULATIONS JASON!

AND BRIAN!

Remember the tie breaker for 3d vs 4th place . . . when you go back and look at the shoot-off video, remember they weren't shooting for 4/5 but a MEDAL!

IT AIN'T OVER TILL IT'S OVER!

And there isn't any shadow or cloud over anyone but the doping shooter.

Jason took it fair and square; no "ifs" or "buts." No asterisk.

[And to any shooter with high blood presure- know the rules and follow them or don't compete. I had to chnage my medication from something great that works fabulous wiht no side effects to some combination of crappy (but legal) other options. No Whining. No Excuses!]

Mako · Post by **Mako** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 10:22 am

Is it true that Alcohol is not a banned Olympic/ISSF substance? Of course some shooters (in years past) have been known to have a bit of a nip before a match to settle their nerves: "wet shooters."

David Levene · Post by **David Levene** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 10:47 am

Mako wrote:Is it true that Alcohol is not a banned Olympic/ISSF substance? Of course some shooters (in years past) have been known to have a bit of a nip before a match to settle their nerves: "wet shooters."

It's a strange one Mako, whilst there is a permitted threshold for the shooting stage of the Modern Pentathlon, ISSF Shooting is not listed as having an alcohol prohibition. See page 10 of the WADA list.

ISSF rule 5.5.2.2 says:-
"Alcohol is not included in the Prohibited List for the Shooting Sport and will not be tested in doping controls but alcohol is dangerous to the health, when misused, and can be a security risk at the shooting range. The range officer has the authority to immediately exclude any shooter with signs of intoxication with alcohol or other drugs. A breath analyzer and/or psychomotor tests may be used for decisions in this matter."

Richard H · Post by **Richard H** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 10:55 am

Not really sure what a breathalizer would do as, there is no prohibition there is no level upon which it is legal or illegal. You think with that statement they would provide a level for which to test too.

That is now what at least the third shooter (two lost their qouta) in the last year that has been caught doping, anyone who doesn't think this is going to start reflecting on the sport as a whole is a little naive.

With shooting on the bubble to get cut we really don't need this crap.

The only good thing unlike drugs in other sports which are used to increase training volumes and decrease recovery time so that performance gains can be realized, shooting would require you to be using the drugs at the event so detection should be easier.

Mako · Post by **Mako** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 11:13 am

With shooting on the bubble to get cut

I would think a lot of "eastern" countries + the U.S. will work hard to make sure shooting remains an olympic sport.

alcohol is dangerous to the health

Even my Prevention magazine gives plus points for moderate alcohol intake. For health reasons I try to have a glass of red wine every day. Works for the french!

visitor · Post by **visitor** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 11:52 am

Not only some shooters but some of the best American shooters have been known to have a drink or more before a match - fondly referred to as a "group tightener."

A friend has had to quit competitive shooting due to the ban on beta blockers. His alternatives include kidney failure, stroke, etc.

Richard H · Post by **Richard H** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 12:00 pm

Did your friend at least try the alternatives to beta blockers, because there are alternatives that are allowed. They don't work for everyone, but you never know unless you try them.

Mako · Post by **Mako** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 12:01 pm

Sorry to hear that ... he should have been allowed to take his Beta Blockers ... but had to drink a double expresso before matches. :-)

Richard H · Post by **Richard H** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 12:03 pm

Mako wrote:
With shooting on the bubble to get cut
I would think a lot of "eastern" countries + the U.S. will work hard to make sure shooting remains an olympic sport.

I wouldn't bet on the US trying that hard to keep shooting in, the NRA doesn't have a voice, it's not like Washington. The biggest voice the US has with regards to the Olympics is NBC and they could care less about shooting.

Mako · Post by **Mako** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 12:10 pm

but some of the best American shooters have been known to have a drink or more before a match

Yeah ... wasn't there a "famous" dust up between a couple of our best years ago, when one "caught" the other one in the rest room before THE match doing his prep. I guess military shooters perhaps are specifically not allowed to take in alcohol while "on duty."