TargetTalk

Here is an interesting one. According to the ISSF/USA Shooting Rules, is it allowable for a parent/coach to challenge the value of a shot fired by their shooter during a competition?

Example: Parent/coach is able to view their shooters shot via monitor or scoring board. Shooter fires a 6 in prone and then takes a break but does not make an immediate move to contact a range official. Can the parent/coach contact a range official and protest the shot value for their shooter?

Let me know what you think.

Anonymous wrote: Example: Parent/coach is able to view their shooters shot via monitor or scoring board. Shooter fires a 6 in prone and then takes a break but does not make an immediate move to contact a range official. Can the parent/coach contact a range official and protest the shot value for their shooter?

Let me know what you think.

My opinion is that yes they can, and they should make a note of the shot number, the score and what they perceive to be the actual result / score and or a reason for the annomaly (assuming they can identify one). At the end of the match they can then protest the score in accordance with the rules. Not exactly sure whether it needs to go via the team manager or coach etc but the shooter can also appeal the score at the end of the match.

<edit> ISSF rules 3.8.4, state that a team leader or his representative can appeal, up to 1 hour after the results are posted but that a fee of $50 is required (returned if appeal upheld). I assume there are similar rulings for each specific organising body so check under which specific rules the competition is shot under.

Rob.

3.8.4. relates to appeal to the Jury of Appeal

7.13.2 & 7.13.3 refer to 'any shooter or team official' but relate to matters other than scoring protests.

7.13.4.2.1 would be more pertinant, but only refers to the 'shooter' - If a shooter contests the value of a shot, a protest will only be accepted when made before the next shot (except for failure of the paper or rubber band to advance see 7.8.4.5) or if it is the last shot, within three (3) minutes.

I would want to know more about ‘guest’s’ definition of parent /coach:
- Is this a spectator who is the shooter's parent who coaches the shooter, or
- THE team coach under the ISSF rules?

Spencer

I assume this is in relation to electronic target systems. In a case like stated above does anyone know how they would prove or disprove that it was a sensor malfunction?

We've had this happen in practise over here, on paper targets rather than electronic (but give us time, our first nationals on electronics is this month). In practise, even if the parent doesn't make the complaint, it's often made at the parent's behest or even pressure. So sometimes the ISSF rules don't always give you the coverage you'd seek. In general we try to accommodate people as far as we can, but we've had to insist on some ground rules - protest times have to be strictly adhered to, targets have to be strictly handed back in bunches of ten, and target release waivers have to be signed by those looking for their targets back after scoring before they're handed over. In short, we've had to cover our ass. Which is annoying, but I suppose the imposed structure is no harm in the long run - if the shooters have to follow the rules, we should too!

Under NRA rules the value of a shot may be challenged, Not Protested. The shooter challenges in individual matches and the assigned coach makes the challenge in team matches. Any compititor disagreeing with the scoring of a shot can also challenge as can any other coach in team matches. Protests deal with such things as the equipment or positition another competitor is using. If you are not an active competitor or coach, you can niether challenge or protest so sit on the side lines and enjoy the match. Good shooting Bill Horton

methosb wrote:I assume this is in relation to electronic target systems. In a case like stated above does anyone know how they would prove or disprove that it was a sensor malfunction?

It is covered in 7.5.7 Procedure for Examination of Electronic Scoring Targets (EST) following a Score Protest, Complaint, No Indication etc.

At first glance, 7.5.7.4 might seem a bit tenuous, but in practice the collected data gives the Jury all the needed information to plot the shots on to graph paper and compare this with the collected data from the target (this is the 'old' manual method).
Fortunately we have computer programs that can print out a reconstituted comparison.

Spencer

I would want to know more about ‘guest’s’ definition of parent /coach:
- Is this a spectator who is the shooter's parent who coaches the shooter, or
- THE team coach under the ISSF rules?

Both, could a parent at a match like the national championships, Junior Olympics, NCAA championships, etc challenge a shot value on electronic targets? Also a coach for any country at a world cup, world championships, olympics, etc?

Anonymous wrote:...Both, could a parent at a match like the national championships, Junior Olympics, NCAA championships, etc challenge a shot value on electronic targets? Also a coach for any country at a world cup, world championships, olympics, etc?

For an ISSF Championships, the wording of 7.13.4.2.1 limits to the shooter any protest/challenge/'contest' of the shot value .
Remember that a team official can have the shooter asked to come from the line (7.9.5.3) for advice.

My point about 'THE team coach' was to stress that a team official (as listed on the nation's team listing for the competition) can ask to have the shooter come back from the firing line - a spectator, whether they are the shooter's personal coach (or parent), who is not a team official can not.

For other competitions it would depend on how closely their rules follow those of the ISSF.

Spencer

this sounds right to me.