TargetTalk

Hi all,

I need a little help determining if I have a problem or not (and what to do about it). I have a Remington 40X with Palma rear sight and International front sight. I can shoot just fine using a front post (pillar).

I had a friend shoot my gun. He used to shoot competitively when he was a teenager and has a master’s rating, so call him my coach. He pretty much insisted I go with a globe front insert. For some reason my eyes just don’t seem to work right with them. Groups are much larger, I question if I am really centered, and chicken finger sets in. The bullseye no longer seems round. I do wear glasses and have astigmatism. For what it is worth, I notice on the Euro simulator (on-line trainer), that I don’t shoot 10X’s with the rifle with aperture sights either (all 9’s). I do fine with the pistol though.

I then tried one of the plastic apertures. This seemed much better and the bullseye seemed round again. But instead of having what I would call a group, the shots were scattered around the X-ring like the numbers on a clock. They were all 10’s but no X’s. My friend didn’t seem to think that was a problem and said it was a group as all shots were equal from the X-ring.

I am thinking it is a function of astigmatism. However why would the plastic aperture seem better? I do plan on getting new glasses soon and that might help. I wonder if a diopter (magnifier) for the front sight would help?

I also notice that when I use a scope I much prefer to take my glasses off. However that isn’t an option at the range. Okay, I can’t think of anything else to add other than I am new to target shooting but have been shooting pellet guns and such since I was a kid (I am 50 now).


Russ

Russ, what are the inner diameters of the two front apertures you used?

They may be too small to let enough light through. The post has lots of light all around it.

I forget the actual size (0.110"???) but it was picked to give a diameter about twice the bullseye (A23 target) which is what I was always taught. The plastic one might have been a little smaller if anything. It was a clear one but was very opaque from old age. On those, the beveled side goes towards your eye doesn't it?



Russ

Holy smokes! I have found .110 to be absolutely huge. To me, the bulls eye is just swimming in that size aperture. I shoot small bore prone with a .085, or a .095. I am about to go back to the smaller one or try a .090. I shoot long range (800 to 1000 yards) high power with a .095. I do shoot with correction (astigmatism and magnification). I am in my 50's too.

John

Don't worry overmuch about the size of the aperature. I use a 0.135 (inches, which is about 3.5 mm) and my friends are amazed that I can hit a barn door. But I am severely nearsighted, and the correction of my lens makes the bull appear quite large. (Imagine the ray diagram of light from the target passing through the sights, the corrective lens, and the lens of my eye before striking the retina and you will have an idea of why this is so.)

The asymetrical bull may be due to your head position or to the glasses you wear. If you are not looking through the optical center of your glasses, you will get some distortion. If your head position on the stock makes you strain your eye, or makes it difficult to keep the front sight centered in the rear sight, you likewise might get some distortion.

But if all your shots are in the 10 and X ring and you are reasonably new to target shooting, perhaps you are expecting too much from yourself! Just keep shooting those 10s! Good luck.

Now this is where my ignorance of target shooting and the equipment comes in.

With a hunting rifle I never questioned if the gun fit me. I just made do with what I had and if I couldn't hit what I aimed at I blamed myself. Truth be told I have never been able to look through the optical center of my glasses when shooting any rifle. I have a somewhat short neck and have to lean my head over and find myself looking through the top inside edge of my lens. I suppose I need to buy something like Knobloch fames?? Chances are I also need an adjustable stock.

But what I really need is a chance to try these things, someone to show me how to set them up, and to see and feel what they can do for me. I hate to whine but money is a biggie. Even getting into the local club is taxing.

Now as far as shooting 10's...well it is off a bench:) I picked the gun up at the beginning of the year and determined then that CCI standard was my value ammo. But I will get a copule of fliers per 10 shot group. Since then I have hooked up with my friend who doesn't seem to care for CCI as he only shot eley in the past. So we are trying to find something we both like (and can afford). Lapua super club seems to be it so far.

Anyhow and back to the topic at hand...if everything else is a constant and only the front sight is changed from post to globe and groups/scores are way different....is that more likey to point to an ergonomic problem not allowing a clear and comfortable sight picture....or is it more likely to point to a problem with my prescription and/or how the frames fit? I don't feel strained in taking my shots but I certainly am not able to look through the center of my glasses. I might add that I wear progressive lens and they do have a sweet spot.

Just wait till I get to asking about mats and coats and pants and boots and gloves and (so many things my head is swimming)...wait, I left out pillar and action bedding and action sleeving and lug truing.....LOL! What happened to aligin the sights correctly, aim at the target, gently squeeze the trigger without upseting sights, and you will hit the target. If you don't then you didn't do the above despite what you think:)


Russ

Russ57 wrote: ... I have never been able to look through the optical center of my glasses when shooting any rifle. I have a somewhat short neck and have to lean my head over and find myself looking through the top inside edge of my lens. I suppose I need to buy something like Knobloch fames?? Chances are I also need an adjustable stock....

...`my friend who doesn't seem to care for CCI as he only shot eley in the past. So we are trying to find something we both like (and can afford)...

...certainly am not able to look through the center of my glasses. I might add that I wear progressive lens and they do have a sweet spot...

I will TRY to address the points I have snipped above.

The easy one first...ammo. Have you tried Federal, and how does your friend feel about that? Dick's sporting goods has some Federal 714 (I think) that shoots reasonably well, and is reasonably priced. My son in law likes it.

Now, back to the eyes. From what you said (above) I suspect you really may have a problem with the glasses. I too, have progressive lenses, but I do not shoot with them. I did purchase Knobloch frames. I also have the benefit of shooting with my friend/ophthalmologist. At his suggestion, I had a lens ground that was to my distance prescription with the astigmatism correction. It has worked wonderfully. By using this set up, I do not have to find the sweet spot in the progressive lens, nor do I have to struggle with head position to sight through the glasses. The combination of your head position and glasses are screwing you up if you find you are struggling to look through the edge. This can't be any fun.

Unfortunately this will take some time and money to fix. You might see if you can find some used Knoblochs and then have a lens ground to fit?

John

Russ
The upper inside of your progressive is mid-distance prescription.
I have progressives and it sometimes is a PiA.

You can go shooting glasses route, or have a pair of glasses made up with the optical center in the upper inside corner (where you would be looking thru).

Another option is bifocal glasses, similar to what I use but adjusted for YOU. My glasses is set up for 10m AP shooting.
right: upper - mid-distance (so I can focus on the front sight of my AP and see the target), lower reading (so I can see stuff on the bench, like my notebook and so I can see the pellet for loading)
left: upper distance (so I can see where I'm walking), lower reading.

The prescription for my right upper was arrived at by working w my eye dr.

As for the front aperture size. I select the aperture diameter that allows me to keep the bull inside the aperture (most of the time) as I wobble. I change the aperture size based on how bad my wobble is on that day.

gud luk

I am near-sighted, have an astigmatism, and wear progressive eyeglasses. I went to my optometrist and had them take the upper (long range) prescription of my eyeglasses and grind a round (plastic) lense to fit my Varga 2000 shooting glasses. They work fine, from 10 meters to 1,000 yards. This did not cost much. The benefits of wearing shooting glasses is that your sight picture is consistently clear. Also, they are adjustable so that you can place your head in the proper position and adjust the glasses to fit (not the other way around). As you know, any inconsistency in head position will affect your shot's point-of-impact.
Best regards,
Steve

If you have an astigmatism and are getting a lense made for your shooting glasses, be sure that the lens is placed in the frame with it rotated properly for the astigmatism. When I got mine back from the optometrist, the black bull was not round but elongated. I loosened the clamp on the lense frame and rotated it slowly until the image of the bull was nice and round.

Professor wrote:If you have an astigmatism and are getting a lense made for your shooting glasses, be sure that the lens is placed in the frame with it rotated properly for the astigmatism. When I got mine back from the optometrist, the black bull was not round but elongated. I loosened the clamp on the lense frame and rotated it slowly until the image of the bull was nice and round.

My ophthalmologist was kind enough to has his lens maker put a mark on one of the edges so I knew how to install in the frame. Yes, it is imperitive that the lens is in the frame correctly!

John