TargetTalk

I want to emphasize that in the following diatribe I have no problem with Larry or the staff at Larry’s Guns, Gary, Maine. They have tried to be helpful.

I purchased a new Hammerli 480K from Larry at Camp Perry in July 2001. I shot the pistol quite successfully until the spring of 2004 when the seals died. I returned the pistol to Larry, and in June 2004 he replaced the valving system with valving from the Hammerli AP40 air pistol, thus upgrading the 480K to AP40 standards. In this discussion, I note that Hammerli/Wather advertise the AP40 as one of their current production models. Consequently, one would expect that valving for an AP40 would be available in the Hammerli supply chain.

In the spring of 2007, the valving on the 480K died again, and I returned it to Larry for rebuild in May 2007. The pistol has sat in his shop ever since because he tells me that he has been unable to obtain spare parts from Europe from Hammerli/Walther. He has also told me that mine is not the only Hammerli for which he has been unable to obtain spare parts.

In mid-December 2007, I sent a civil e-mail to Hammerli complaining of the situation, to which I received no response. In mid-January 2008, I sent a civil e-mail to Walther complaining of the situation, to which I received no response.

Since I live in an urban area, I depend on my air pistol and rifle for a large part of my practice, and have consequently been unable to practice as much as I need or would like. I have missed the Maryland state air pistol match, a series of local matches in Maryland, and will miss the two sectional matches scheduled for February in my local area. At this point, it would be a cold day in hell before I purchased another firearm with Hammerli or Walther marked on it, since these companies appear to have no interest in supporting their customers. CAVEAT EMPTOR

I would be interested in suggestions from other air pistol shooters regarding a competitive air pistol produced by a firm which actually has an interest in supporting their product.

Regards,
Don

I don't know how relative this is, but a friend of mine returned an RWS rifle to the repair center of uber-conglomerate Umarex; part of the megolithic sportwaffen producer. Needless to say, his experience was far from pleasing (broken stock upon return, that Umarex claimed was Fedex fault, despite the fact that the gun was returned in a pristine, double boxed shippping carton). I get the distinct impression that the competitive lines of both Hammerli and Walther have been diluted here in the U.S. by airsoft toys and recreational level airguns. It must drive Larry Carter nuts to not be able to properly serve the owners of a gun line that has such a long and storied history in competitive shooting sports. I'm currently nosing around for an air pistol, and I'm almost too afraid to even consider a Walther, Hammerli, FAS, or Benelli because what might turn into a service headache. It seems like Steyr, Morini, Pardini, and FWB are best represented and supported by folks like our gracious host, Scott, Larry Carter, Neal Stepp, Neal Johnson, and a few others. I can do the service work (I just rebuilt a FWB M80), but without parts, I'm stuck.

just my 2 rubels,

toznerd

Damn.

For Walther products, I'd go with Earl's or Champion's Choice...but it bothers me greatly that this is a problem with Hammerli. I'm sitting on a 480...and a 208S, and a 280.

Send an email to the swedish Hammerli distributor. They are very helpful!
Since you're only looking for small parts I think they will be able to help you.
hammerli.sport@telia.com

Say hello from me while you're at it (Tommy Mellberg). =)

I don't know how good they are at english but I'm sure this will help you more than enough. =)

Who did you send the email to at Walther?

Unfortunately Walther is a big company and target pistol are just a very small part. Try to get in contact with their sports service department.

That said I'd be looking for another pistol if the same thing failed on it that short of a time span.

Richard: I used the Contact Form on the official Walther web page -- www.carl-walther/de2 . I realize that Walther is a big company. They point that out in the format of the Contact Form. They also promise to get your question to the appropriate person, and promise to respond as quickly as possible. I would think that two weeks would be adequate for some sort of response, even if it is "We''ve received your question and are refering it to Herr/Frau ____, who is the appropriate person." It's been six weeks since I sent my e-mail to Hammerli; also to the contact point on their official web page. German companies used to be known for their customer support, at a time when U.S. companies -- Remchester, for example -- were fat, dumb, lazy, and didn't care. Such does not now appear to be the case, at least with Walther. I bought the Hammerli originally because of their reputation for quality of design and manufacture, and customer support. I have always had an enormous degree of respect for the quality of Swiss firearms design and manufacture. I own four model 1851 Swiss Feldstutzers, and a K-31. The Swiss Army issued arms that were almost target rifle quality to their soldiers.

That said, you would think that 9 and a half months would be adequate time for the factory to supply parts to their U.S. factory authorized repair center. Particularly since my 480K is apparently not the only pistol involved.

Mr. Melberg: I appreciate your suggestion. Unfortuately, I would not know what to ask for, or how to screw it into the pistol if I did. In the case of air weapons, I shoot the things, and do not have an adequate knowledge base to repair them. All I could tell Larry Carter when I sent the pistol to him was that it was shooting columns 9 ring wide and 3 ring to 3 ring high/low. I concluded that this was probably related to a seal or valving problem, but a solution was beyond my technical skill. Since I normally shoot in the 540 range, I'm not a world class shooter in air pistol, but I generally have an idea where the bullets should be printing when I press the trigger.

Just trying to give you some advice, do with what you want.

As for Hammerli's customer service, I know of a few shooters ( 1 pistol and 2 rifle), at the elite levels who stopped using their products because they were never at any of the WC's to support even the elite athlete's. (This was prior to the sale to Walther).

I know its sometimes frustrating dealing with European arms manufactures they don't respond like we are use to.

That said I've always had excellent service, and very quick responses from Steyr for the couple of times I had questions.

Good luck, I hope you get it sorted out.

I read at several places that the Umarex group decided to stop the production of the AP40 in June/July 2007.

I never saw any confirmation of that statement and I do not know if it is true but it might explain the problems encountered.

I also heard that the 480K, a "real" Hemmerli from the time Hammerli was not yet part of the Umarex group, is not supported anymore by the company.

I was serious at it and always had two guns; the lead dog and a spare for which I held hope of improving. I would shoot both on league nights alternating and tuning only the spare. Eventually, the spare takes over and I tune the former lead dog. I would upgrade the 2nd gun after 4 years of second fiddle.

Anyways, Look at what the big dogs are using in Nationals and World cups. It isnt Walther or Hammerli anything, its Steyr and Morini. These guns, and companies will give you service.

I feel that scuba guns are also much harder on seals than CO2 due to higher working pressures and my own experience of having the newer AP rebuilt before the older CO2 did.

best regards and good luck

jipe wrote:I read at several places that the Umarex group decided to stop the production of the AP40 in June/July 2007.

I never saw any confirmation of that statement and I do not know if it is true but it might explain the problems encountered.

I also heard that the 480K, a "real" Hemmerli from the time Hammerli was not yet part of the Umarex group, is not supported anymore by the company.

I think your info was wrong if not then why is it still on their site? and amazingly enough listed as "NEW".
http://www.carl-walther.info/dev2/index ... id=3&uid=1

As Walther took over Hammerli a new model (AP40 Balance) was released. The new barrel looks very similar to the new Walther LP300XT barrel.

I was very strongly considering a new FP60,,,,,BUT after seeing all of this it just kinda leaves doubt in my mind,,,,,,,,, May have to go with the Morini instead. Wonder if the new FP60s will be dropped support wise in a few yaers? Who's to say who buys who next. Grandam used to say " what a tangeled web we weave ".

jipe said that he had read in seveal places that Umarex had decided to stop production of the AP40. When I went out on the web, It couldn't find anything in English on this, but http://letirsportif.free.fr had a comment in their review (Essais) section on the AP40. Assuming that my translation is correct, they indicated that Umarex had decided that production of the AP40 would cease effective 20 June 2007.

One would expect that when a company stopped production of an item -- not necessarily just a firearm -- they would lay in a supply of spares to support their customer base for a reasonable period of time. Hammerli and Walther still advertise the AP40 as being available on their web sites. Are the remaining guns in stock now orphans due to lack of spare parts before they are even sold?

Recently I had an oposite experience with Feinwerbau. I own a FBW 65 that my father bought in 1972. This gun has a sentimental value for me as I began learning shooting with it. Last year the trigger slider broke and I decided not only to repair it but also change seals and main srping. I ordered all the spares from Feinwerkbau and they shipped them in less than a week but somehow they were lost by post service.

Two months later I contacted Feinwerbau again and informed them of the loss. Again, in less than a week, they shipped the spares, this time at no cost (spares and post). This time I received them and promptly repaired my 65.

As the pistol I use to compete, a FBW100, is getting old I'm sure the next one will be a Feinwerkbau.

Regards,

Tomeu