TargetTalk

For most of the basics I have been using information on the web such as the tips from Mr. Nygord. This information is helping but I am sure it is not a substitute for the question/answer interactions I will hopefully get here and hopefully at some point with a club or coach (Raleigh, NC).

One area where I still have a real question is the range length and another is the use or covering of eyes.

For a beginner like me, is it a good idea to start on a shorter course and work you way up or it it better to start at the full 10 meters?

Currently at 10 meters I hit the target about 90% of the time. Around 10% of the time the pellet lands outside the target but usually it's very close. It is rare for me to miss the pellet trap but in all honesty it happens (probably around 1% of the time).

Today I put ten shots on a target (10.5, 8.6, 8.6, 7.6, 7.5, 5.1, 4.3, 3.6, 3.0, and 2.3).

My question is at this point in my development should I consider shooting at a shorter range or should I stick to the full ten meters and keep working on the basics?

Also I tried using a small patch made from an index card over my normal glasses.

I am right handed and have tried the following approaches:
-- Closing left eye
-- Closing right eye
-- Using patch on left eye
-- Using patch on right eye
-- Leaving both eyes open but only using one eye (using my right one)
-- I have NOT yet tried closing both eyes ;)

At this point I am not sure what approach for eyes is working the best. I think that leaving both eyes open is producing the best shots but all three approaches are fairly close in terms of scores.

With respect to eyes, what is your general advice for a beginner?

1. 10m
2. patch on non dominant eye. I assume your right eye is your dominant (shooting) eye?

Is the front sight in focus and the bullseye fuzzy (out of focus)? If you cannot achieve this, then you need to visit an optometrist and get a prescription that will allow you to focus properly on the front sight. See the recent discussion here on shooting glasses.

I notice that you shot a 10.5. Just repeat what you did to get that. :-)

As for some tips on HOW to repeat:

Your problem is probably your grip. And your trigger control. And a host of other things, but those two make up 95% of shooting.

Put the pellets down, and start dryfiring. You're watching your front sight, ESPECIALLY after the shot breaks. You should not see movement in the front sight. However, you will almost certainly be seeing it for now.

Here's the holy grail: the middle and ring finger grip the pistol firmly. The pinkie rides along, depending on the grip geometry, it can add a bit of pressure if done carefully. So, we have three fingers doing something right now. It is terribly important that they are exerting pressure directly back towards your palm, down the line of your arm. Practice this, it's just a simple exercise of holding the gun, and paying attention to how the pressure is flowing.

Second part: Waggle your index finger. If you can't waggle it, you are gripping too hard with the other fingers. Now learn to pull the trigger without the other fingers changing in any way. Again, the pull has to be straight back, you may think that you can fudge on this, but you can't.

Once you get these two things working, you should be able to kiss anything lower than a six goodbye. The remainder will have to wait on your muscles developing, so that the wobble decreases while you're holding on target.

After you've mastered the grip, and your trigger finger is obeying your commands (mostly) the only thing that is left is to watch the sight alignment during the shot. You can let it wander around as a unit, but you have to fight to keep the front and rear aligned at all times. Again, you'll think that a small wobble (movement of the whole unit) and a small error in sight alignment are better than a large wobble and no error in alignment, but you're wrong. The sevens and sixes come from one place only; bad sight alignment.

H.

Thanks!

Grip and trigger control seem to be my main problem. Your 100% correct that as I pull the trigger there is a big jump so clearly that is a big part of my problem.

Second thing to work on: This seems like a mental trick, so it might be unique to me and not work for you, but once I get my grip stabilized, there is a definite moment when I see a decent wobble around the center and say "start pulling the trigger." Mind you, I don't pull the trigger, I just tell my finger to do "the trigger pull" thing that it does, which takes 1-2 seconds. My best shots, where the sights don't move a hair during firing, are when I send the command, then completely forget about it and keep the sights aligned. Any anticipation leads to muscle movement.

H.

farnsworth wrote:...
I am right handed and have tried the following approaches:
..
-- I have NOT yet tried closing both eyes ;)..

During dry-firing, you can try this as well. Once the sights are aligned, close all your eyes and release the shot. Then open the aiming eye and examine amount and direction of deviation to the previous state.

This tells you immediatly where your control can be improved.
(Follow this link to improve your understanding: http://www.bartleby.com/107/125.html . Nothing helps visualization better than a precise anatomical underpinning)

All the usual (training-)suspects meet here:
-- know your present state,
-- have a clear vision of a desired future state,
-- have a plan how to get from one state to the other,
-- practice makes the master,
-- further elaboration is left as an excersise to the dedicated student..

best regards

Axel

I agree with what is said above: most important is trigger control and grip control.

But I see in your initial post that the shots results was monotonically decreasing. Is that the real shot sequence ? If it is, I think you might also have a physical condition and/or mental concentration issue since the first shots are rather good and then become bad.

Actually the numbers are just in the order that I recorded them. I shoot ten shots at the target then when I record the shots I simply look at the target and record the best shot, next best, next, and so on. This works well since I don't have a I don't walk up range to check the target between shoots and unfortiently I can't always see where the pellets land.

From a range safety perspective, I'd suggest you may want to shoot at a reduced range until you get them all on the card 99.9% of the time. Try also shooting at the back of a card to ensure full concentration on sights and see how your group sizes compare. Lastly see if you can identify whether you are snatching shots off of the target or if your hold area is just very large. Are the more wild shots always going in the same direction for example ?

Rob.

Without actually seeing how you shoot , most advice is of the general nature. I coach juniors and believe me there are more errors than grip and trigger issues, grip and trigger issues rarely make you miss the target. There are a multitude of things that go into the shot process, of which no one here has seen you perform or even asked you about prior to dispensing coaching advice.

Two things if possible see if there is a coach near you that can watch you shoot, barring that see if there is another shooter that shoots reasonably well that will watch you. Next I don't know your background but try to get a grounding in the fundementals, a good free source is the AMU Pistol guide (its free too). http://www.bullseyepistol.com/amucover.htm

At your stage you shouldn't even be worrying about scores at all, let alone recording them to the tenth.

Right now grouping is important, first getting them all on the page, then shrinking them down.

Such large errors come from angular errors meaning your sights (front and rear) are not aligned during the shot. The best suggestion that has been given is to start shooting on blank cards, this gives you nothing else to focus on but the front sight. When you have a faced target, you may think you are looking at the front sight but the human eye likes to play games and like to change focus fron sights to target to sight to target, this is not good.


What is your sight picture? Center, Six O'clock, Sub-six
What are the steps you do prior to the shot? In detail
What is your stance? Open your body is more perpendicular to the firing line or closed Closed your body faces more towards the target.

I wouldn't advocate shooting on a reduced range (unless that is all that is available and use appropriately reduced targets) , you're trying to learn to shoot 10m's, shooting 5 or 7 m might mean you get a couple more on the target, but eventually your going to have to shoot at 10m, so it's best to fix the problems at 10 so you can see that they are fixed. I don't know about Rob's safety comment aslong as you're putting them into the backstop, I really don't know what the safety concern is.

Have you determined what your dominant eye is? Make a cirlce with your thumb and first finger, hold it up infront of your face (so its about 2 feet away) center an object in the circle. then close each eye individually, when you close one of the eyes the object will be still in the middle of the circle, thats your dominant eye.

I suggest that you try a blinder on your non aiming eye. If it works for you continue with it if not you can always stop using it no harm done.