TargetTalk

I just bought a Hammerli 280 that I would like to reload for. I have reloaded for lots of other calibers but first time for this one. I have a few questions on the process.

Here is what I have.
Lupua Brass
Lupua 98gn WC Bullets
CCI 500 sm. pistol primmers
Redding Titanium Carbide dies
Tightgroup
WST
WSF
VV310
Red Dot
Unique

1. Can you give me suggestions on a load using the components I already have.
2. In using the WC bullets, how far in do you seat them?
3. How much of a crimp do I use and how to apply it using the crimp seating die?

Thank you very much.

Skeeter

Something that seems to work well in almost every 280 is a clone of the once factory Hirtenberger .32 S&W: 1.4grs VV310, 98grs HBWC, slight roll crimp. Brass and Primer don't matter.

to add to the foregoing:
Seat the WC bullet flush with the case mouth (not including the small tit on the top of the bullet).
I prefer to seat the bullet fully before crimping. That is, seat in one stage and crimp in another. This avoids any shaving of the bullet that can occur with a die that seats and crimps simultaneously.
Mike T.

Three more questions.

1. How much of a flair should I add to the case mouth prior to seating? Can you over flair?

2. On the crimp, should it just be enough that I cant push in the bullet against the bench, or should it be heavier?

3. Can I get away with the taper crimp the redding die provides?

Thanks again

Skeeter

I second Mike's statement. I use a separate "roll crimp die" = standard seating die in station 5 of my 650XL. Personally, I like a nice roll crimp on my .32 (perhaps a tiny bit less than normal factory ammo), as it gives me slightly higher and considerately more consistent gas pressure curves - especially as I don't sort my brass (Lapua/Geco/Hirtenberger), too much work for very little gain. Furthermore, no roll crimped bullet ever wanders out of its case, which has not always been the case with taper crimped ones - big issue if the same ammo should be usable in a revolver. And, the roll crimp is good for feeding reliability, I've seen too many taper crimps hang themselves up at some edge somewhere. IMHO, crimp has nothing to do with keeping the bullet from going inwards, that's no concern if I look at the movement during recoil. Never ever put a crimp into the bullet with a .32, but that trick (which I've used successfully with .38 out of .357 revolvers) probably won't work anyway with most .32 autoloaders because of length restrictions. Taper crimp may be better for the brass, but who cares, enough around. I don't flair the cases much, just enough to seat the bullet easily and consistently.

1. The purpose of flaring is to put the bullet in so flare it enough that you can set the bullet in the mouth of the case. You just want to be able to start the bullet in the case mouth, so that it is ready for seating. Yes you can over flare you'll start work hardening your brass and get case splits.

2. You want the bullet to be secure, it sholdn't easily move (more from coming out then going in). I have no idea how hard you are pushing against the work bench. Crimp it so that the bullet wont easily push in with your thumb.

Another thing you can do is measure the top with calipers prior to crimping then set your crimp so that it gives you the approx same dia. as a factory round (if using the same bullet and brass as a factory rnd ie all Lapua components).

3. Taper crimp will work, a roll or taper might work better in your pistol but you'd have to test them to find which works best, But for function both a taper and a roll will work.

I also agree with the others its best to seat and crimp in separate operations.

Got it. I will look for a seperate roll crimp die and seat and crimp seperately.

As for the flair, I tried several and it tends to peal lead away from the bullet unless I add more flair... then it takes me extra time to seat the bullet as the brass wants to hit the edge of the die upon insertion. Any suggestions?

Thanks

Skeeter

Haven't had any problems so far, but I'm not using Redding dies, either. I have the standard Dillon expander/filler and a RCBS carbide set. That gives me a nice "trumpet" in station 2 to seat the bullets, but I'm far away from the limits of the seating die entrance. I know that other people, especially those using teflon coated bullets, have been using cylindrical expanders in station 3 which expand the whole case for a lenght of 95% of the bullet. Bullet gets "clamped" in the last 2mm, case gets vertically "taper crimped" in the seating die and final roll crimped in station 5. I've been thinking about it, but as I'm using standard greased HBWC and having no problems whatsoever with precision or tipping, I haven't seen the necessity so far. If you want to try it, it's pretty simple - use a discarded .38 (or so) die in station 3 with a lathed down (bullet diameter +something very small) expander.

An overlooked area is getting a consistent powder charge at such a small load.

Also getting the case expansion right for a 0.314 bullet, most die sets seem designed for 0.310.
The tubular expander sounds good but not essential to start with.

Primers - no magnum primers!

Seat the bullet flush with the top of the case, for Lapua I believe the button can protrude.

Although a friend of mine swears that he is getting better loads with less powder (0.9 - 1.0 grs) and a magnum primer... Haven't tried that, though - had enough trouble getting my Dillon to throw consistent loads down to 1.3grs :-)

skeeter wrote:Got it. I will look for a seperate roll crimp die and seat and crimp seperately.
Skeeter

Just to clarify ... you'll need two of the same die. Just back out the crimper on the first and use it as the seater and back out the seater on the second die and use it as the crimper.

Tycho wrote:Although a friend of mine swears that he is getting better loads with less powder (0.9 - 1.0 grs) and a magnum primer... Haven't tried that, though - had enough trouble getting my Dillon to throw consistent loads down to 1.3grs :-)

Tycho wasn't there a guy in Switzerland making small powder dies for Dillion's? I sent him an email but he never got back to me.

Hm, don't know, can't remember having heard anything about such a thing... Got my Dillon running fine after some tries, so I wasn't in need of expertise, but I don't think I've ever heard of someone offering special services for the Dillon herearound - it's rare enough to find competent reloaders anyway...

These guys make an extra small measure
http://www.uniquetek.com/site/696296/product/T1267

I made my own from brass, not sure how a plastic bar will work, it would need to be anti-static.

The dillon extra small one just about works, but did not seem very consistent.

Just to clarify ... you'll need two of the same die. Just back out the crimper on the first and use it as the seater and back out the seater on the second die and use it as the crimper.

Dillon dies have separate seat and crimp dies.

Thanks for all the great advise. I ordered a Redding Profile crimping die so I can seat seperately from the crimp. I also ordered a micro measure bar so I can despense < 1.5 of VV310 and I adjusted the expander so it gives me a little more flair at the case mouth to keep from scrapping the lead HBWC during seating. I'll let you know how they shoot and what my chrono times are. Thanks again.

Skeeter

Not Switzerland.. Sweden.

And I am sorry that I haven´t gotten back to either Ernie or RichardH, had a few other things on my mind at that time and I had not checked my PM inbox since march... Don´t get too many PM:s

I have made and sold about ten ultra small powder bars, have not gotten any bad reviews so far, in fact no reviews... except for Axel who seems to likes it.

Here´s the previous thread

/Anders

Ok, just did up my first load. Have to say, not the best looking loads I've ever done. I still get a little bit of bullet scrape when seating the bullet into the case. I don't want to over flange the case mouth but how much drag is acceptable? Does it help if I chamfer the case mouths so they don't drag as much when seating the bullets?

Also, when seating, do these round seat even with the case mouth, or slightly lower to allow for the roll crimp?

Thanks

Skeeter

You should'nt have to chamfer the case. Just ever so slightly start adjusting the dies to open the case up. I use a Redding Profile crimp and the bullet edge is even with the case. I needed some fine tuning when I was setting up my .32 dies. Get a reliable functioning cartrige before you start looking for the Magic 50 Yard Load!

Thanks Rob. How much crimp do you apply? I have the same Redding profile crimping die but not sure whether or not to apply a light crimp or a heavy one. Thanks again

Skeeter

Brass does matter. Starline, for example, is a +P web design and is fine for full length RN or SWC loads. When you seat a WC deep into a +P case, the skirt gets compressed and accuracy fails badly BTDT.

I also use a Redding micrometer measure on a Dillon 550 for these charges.

Remington and Lapua are true straightwall cases. I have ball end mikes and checked. The Starline start at 8 mils and quickly swell to 17 where the base of bullet would be.

I see Midway has a 32 Mag profile crimp but not a 32 S&W. Will that work?
I think it is only the length that changes.

regards