TargetTalk

I picked this up late last year and am now just getting around to it.
What I can't figure out is how to charge it.
The adapter screws onto the FWB tank and then onto the CO2 tank with no problem. I can open the tank and can tell everything is pressurized.
The tank does have a siphon tube. We even tried it on a 50# tank.
However, the cylinder doesn't fill. Tried it several different ways.
I think that something may be missing to depress the pin during filling...or am I just missing the boat?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Chris

PS The links are in the correct order, but the pictures below are in reverse order.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p64/ ... ide1-1.jpg

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p64/ ... lide10.jpg

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p64/ ... ide3-2.jpg

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p64/ ... ide2-2.jpg


**********Airgn Reference Library Update November 2007:
For the DVD ISO file, google “Airgun Reference Library Torrent” but without the quotes. Since August, I see that it has been downloaded over 1300 times between the various torrent sites that I’m aware of. Thanks to all who continue to seed it.

http://www.mininova.org/tor/947070
Torrent Description: This is the Airgun Reference Library ISO file
Airgun Shooting Olympics Boy Scouts Cub Scouts 4H NRA Rifle Gun Pistol Air
PCP SSP CO2 Theoben Air Arms RWS Beeman Daisy Crosman
http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/thread/1175918158/

Sorry if I come up with a dumb question - but in my experience, it's necessary to put a CO2 tank into the fridge for some minutes before filling it... did you try that?

Try mac1airgun.com - he's the co2 man. Looks like you're missing a pin, but try the man anyway.

I have similar cylinders but I have filler with a pin that connects to the co2 tank and fills a number of cylinders.

Buck at Pilkguns may also be able to advise you.

Good luck - it looks like a simple solution . . .

Jim

I still shoot a FWB CO2 gun, and here's what I do:

1) Chill the cylinder in the freezer.

2) I use the same filing adapter, but use a simple nylon washer designed go the CGA-320 valve on co2 tanks. It goes between the fill adapter and the valve on the co2 tank

3) I screw the gun's chilled cylinder onto the adapter hand tight, allowing the face of the gun's cylinder to seal the nylon washer onto the face of the CGA-320 valve.

4) I slowly open the valve on the co2 tank and watch the gun's cylinder. Usually, you can see the frost on the gun's cylinder melt away to a thin film of sweat.

5) Unless I hear leaking, I usually allow the valve to stay open about 15 seconds.

6) Close the valve on the tank, and slowly unscrew the gun's cylinder. Wipe off the sweat, and weigh to verify a full charge

7) Bleed if over, and cap and store, or replace on pistol.

There is no pin on the fill adapter or filter/adapter to depress the pin on the guns. Simple physics equalizes the low pressure of the empty cylinder with the pressure of the co2 tank.

Some things to look at:
-Is the filter allowing co2 to easily pass?
-Is/are the tank(s) you have used full enough? They may have pressure, but is there enough dense co2 ("liquid") in the bottom of the tank(s)
-Are you chilling your cylinder and keeping your fill tanks at room temperature (cold tanks, i.e. stored in a cold garage, don't supply full pressure to force liquid co2 up the siphon and into the cylinder.)

Hope that helps,

cricman

I have owned a FWB 2 since the early 80s, when it first arrived.
I own the long version, - the one pictured here is the youth/ladies short version.

The cylinders ought to be chilled well prior to filling, if you want to get the cylinders fully charged.
But, without chilling, some gas should enter the cylinder from the tank.
If there is liquid gas in the tank, with cyl attached, and valve of tank open, after a short time pressure in cyl would become equal to gas pressure in tank. Without chilling, little or no liquid gas would enter the cyl, though.

The partly pressurized cyl, would, depending on temperature though, be able to propel at lest a few pellets out of the barrel.

My FWB 2, having seen (suffered) extensive use during all these years, is still in use occasionally. Measurements show the pellet speed varies some from shot to shot, the trigger edges are pretty much worn out.
Pellet velocity variability could be du to the fact that the striker hits the cylinder-valve itself, there is no secondary gas chamber incorporated in this gun. And as the valve seats of the cyl gets worn...
Well, I have during this roughly 25 years of use only had leakage develop in one cyl, which was easily cured by changing an o-ring. Not bad, I admit.

The long version of the FWB 2 is front heavy. I have fired my best score in competition with this gun. Back in 1985 that was...

Hello Chris,

If you have followed all of the recommendations for filling your cylinders (replies above) and still have problems, then make sure that the tank or siphon are not clogged (open valve and check pressure)...If they are OK, then check that the seal's filter in the adapter is not clogged either...

I have a Mod 2 (short) that I love because of its weight and extreme accuracy, even though I currently shoot a FWB mod 56 rapid fire pistol that I also use as a single shot pistol; I shoot my Mod 2 as much as the new gun.

What I am going to tell you is controversial because in this forum we have many "know it all members", but anyhow I am going to tell you what I found:

I moved to Flathead Lake in MT and my nearest CO2 supplier is not close (about 70 miles) so I decided to convert my mod 2 to air (I have a 300 PSI compressor and hand pump for my P56).

Morini makes a kit for the C5 but not for the Mod 2 so I was told it could not be done....the kit for the C-5 and other C models is a new valve (regulator) and 2 air aluminum cylinders; it is sold anywhere from $300 up US dollars…
I am a mechanical engineer and was trained as "nothing is impossible as long as there are $ means and technology available”… so I decided to play around and find out what could be done...

The mod 2 has the pressure valves inside the cylinders, nothing wrong with this technology other that pressure can vary somewhat from cylinder to cylinder depending on the setting of the valves...

If you read on your cylinders you will find out that they can easily hold 200 BAR which is the pressure used for most PCP guns...actually, the MOD 2 steel cylinders are stamped to charge at a Max pressure of 250 BAR.

If you try to fill the CO2 cylinders with a pressure hand pump or compressor with a FWB PCP air adapter, you will have a leak at 20 BAR (between cylinder and adapter) caused by the short threading of the adapted vs., the long thread of the CO2 cylinder...

This leak is very easy to fix by adding an "O" ring to the adapter...then you can go to 200 bar WITHOUT ANY PROBLEMS...I have a lathe and was going to make an adapter but it was not necessary…

Going to 250 BAR with a hand pump is an extremely good work out! …But 200 BAR is good enough and very easy to pump...

I then checked the velocity and found out that it was way too high (close to 700 fps) vs. the velocity I was getting with CO2 (507 fps)...I used a Chrony before and after the modification….

Regulating velocity is done by turning the screw behind the grips (the upper screw) which is used for this purpose….I readjusted the velocity screw (counterclockwise) for about the same 507 fps average and I have shot air for the last year very successfully with the same or better accuracy.

I never noticed the effects of change in point of impact, varying pressure or nothing with CO2 so I am as happy shooting air as I was shooting CO2…

I never quite fully understood why I was getting more velocity with air vs. CO2 with the same adjustment in the gun…CO2 gets into the chamber in liquid form and then expands so the volume required for a given velocity is less for CO2 than for air so the effect should have been the opposite…

I used to get about 150 shots with CO2 and now I am getting about ½ with air (80 to 100 depending on the air pressure 200 BAR or 250 BAR)

The only explanation I found as an engineer is that the volume of liquid CO2 that the Mod 2 gets in the chamber is dictated by the striking force in the firing pin opening or hitting the valve in the CO2 cylinder…a valve regulated for liquid needs a harder “push” than the same valve regulated for air, the cylinder valve allows CO2 at a much lower pressure that pure air and more pressure equals more velocity assuming that the volume of gases is enough for propelling the pellet…

Note: I have not done any testing in gas volumes or velocities of gases so please don’t take this explanation as the bible…I am pretty sure that this will be controversial…

The only drawbacks: You will not get as many shots as you do with CO2 as mentioned above and YOU WILL GET A LOT OF THE ATTENTION of the “know it all experts”….they will tell you unfounded things such as being “very dangerous”, “To have an expert do it”, “lack of accuracy”, etc…

It took some time for “KNOW IT ALL GUYS” around here to accept that all a $.25 modification was all that it was needed…

All I can tell you is that with a $.25 “O” ring I switched the gun to air and it shoots equal or better than my $2,000 + Feinwerkbau P56…and YES…there is such a thing as a DUAL PROPELLANT gun assuming that you readjust the velocity…

Keep your Mod 2 and be sure that whoever tells you that is obsolete or that there are better things out there, be sure that they have never owned one.

Best regards,

AZUARO
Flathead Lake, MT

Anonymous wrote:
I never quite fully understood why I was getting more velocity with air vs. CO2 with the same adjustment in the gun…CO2 gets into the chamber in liquid form and then expands so the volume required for a given velocity is less for CO2 than for air so the effect should have been the opposite…

I used to get about 150 shots with CO2 and now I am getting about ½ with air (80 to 100 depending on the air pressure 200 BAR or 250 BAR)

Gas equilibrium pressure at common ambient temperature is in the 30 - 40 bar range.

You filled the (CO2) cylinder to 200 bars. As you wrote, the FWB Mod 2 cyl have a simple "regulator" incorporated in the valve. There is no "secondary chamber", the striker strikes the cylinder valve stem directly!

Did you experience velocity loss during consume of a cylinderfull of air? Guess so, cause the FWB Mod 2 relies on the equlibrium pressure of gas phase/liquid phase CO2 to keep pressures stable (at stable temperature). Once all liquid CO2 is gone, pressure drops in small steps after each shot, so does velocity.

The FWB models that followed the FWB Mod 2 , mod C20, C25 had "secondary pressure chambers" incorporated.

The 80 to 100 shot "mileage" you gget from your cylindersfulls of air indicates you are realeasing quite an amount of air at each triggerpull. That translates to relative high velocity.

You wrote:

“Did you experience velocity loss during consume of a cylinder full of air?”
With either 200 or 250 BAR the velocity remained at around 503-510 fps from the first to about the 75th-80th shot…. I have never let the cylinder to get fully empty, this is just a common practice I use with all my guns (PCP or CO2)...

The 80 shots mark comes from counting the shots per cylinder at a little over 100 and randomly determining 80% of that to be the maximum shots per cylinder that I would fire.

With 250 BAR this number exceeds 100 but it is very hard to pump 250 BAR by hand and even though I have a compressor, I use the hand pump very often at the range.
Note: If I pump 250 BAR I get such a workout that I need to rest and sleep for the rest of the afternoon!!! (I am not that young anymore)

Absolutely, air will give you fewer shots than CO2 for any given cylinder capacity as you mention… A smaller amount of liquid CO2 "expands" and gives the same amount of pressure given by air for any wanted velocity...This fact will be the equivalent to using a more explosive powder in center fire pistols/rifles where for any determined velocity the volume or weight of powder varies according to the explosiveness of the propellant utilized…

Yes, there is no secondary valve in the Mod 2 but I suppose that the valve in the cylinder(s) of the Mod 2 is pretty accurate in providing a consistent pressure/volume of liquid or gas up to a certain point. I have not had any variations with either propellant up to around 80 shots but I have not done measurements it in the last 4-5 shots either (4-5 last shots of the capacity of the cylinder)

As I mentioned before, the velocity does not vary more than about 5 feet (average) from the first to the last shot (80th) which is about what I get with my P56 and my FWB 700 rifle. I use the R10 RWS pellets without resizing the skirts and this could very well be a factor in the variance of velocity but it is negligible as the accuracy does not vary a bit….

Tests in our Ransom machine prove that the P56 and Mod 2 have the same accuracy potential…

The most important fact is that the accuracy is transparent to either propellant (air or CO2) and if you are satisfied with about 80 shots per cylinder (I have 4 cylinders ready all the times) then you are in business and up to par in accuracy with any other top of the line gun…

The weight and balance of this MOD 2 is what attracts me the most, I cannot hold any other pistol as steady as I can hold this model and this is the reason why I resist letting it go.

Thank you for your reply….

Best regards,

AZUARO
Flathead Lake, MT

First off, I want to give a hearty Texas “Thank You” to everyone for their advice.
I have studied this thread carefully and saved it for reference for my next attempt at cylinder filling.
Unfortunately, I have not had the opportunity to visit my CO2 source (local paintball store) yet to try again. I shall give it a shot over the Christmas Holiday. I think I will be successful after all the help I received here.
I can follow instructions well, LOL.

Fortunately, I have an IZH46 to play with until then. What drew me to the FWB Model 2 was the way the pellet is loaded, just drop and watch the probe seat the pellet in the barrel. This is much easier than my clumsy attempts at loading pellets directly in the IZH46 barrel.

AZUARO
Wow! Your experience with filling the CO2 cylinder with high pressure air may actually turn out to be a better solution for me. This would prevent having to buy the necessary CO2 supplies. The ideal for me would be a Foster Male with the FWB PCP air adapter you mentioned. I already have a SCUBA tank (Steel 100CF 3500psi) and an Axsor pump. Could you send me some pictures of it? Any idea what it would cost (ballpark). I checked the Pilkguns website and didn’t see anything like it. Would you be willing to make one? (Pretty Please )

I’m an engineer too (electrical/industrial/etc) and familiar with material strengths and limitations. I would be very happy to fill to 180 bar to get 40 to 50 consistent shots fill per cylinder as I have three cylinders.

Thanks again to all who offered help.
Merry Christmas
Chris


**********Airgn Reference Library Update November 2007:
For the DVD ISO file, google “Airgun Reference Library Torrent” but without the quotes. Since August, I see that it has been downloaded over 1300 times between the various torrent sites that I’m aware of. Thanks to all who continue to seed it.

http://www.mininova.org/tor/947070
Torrent Description: This is the Airgun Reference Library ISO file
Airgun Shooting Olympics Boy Scouts Cub Scouts 4H NRA Rifle Gun Pistol Air
PCP SSP CO2 Theoben Air Arms RWS Beeman Daisy Crosman
http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/thread/1175918158/

Chris,

You did not leave an email address...

Feinwerkbau part number 18770012 (Air adapter) is all that you will need, you can buy it at Shooter's Choice for $30.00, Not worth turning on the lathe for making one!...

Go to:
www.champchoice.com/shop.php?pline=AIRGUN

Take this adapter to your local hardware and get the "O" ring (tightest you can fit) and you will be in business...

Just keep in mind that the threads of your CO2 cylinders will not go all the way in because air cylinders have a much shorter thread than CO2 ones, but with the "O "ring in the adapter you will not have a leak or any other problems and will be able to pump up to the 250 bar that the CO2 cylinder can handle.

Note: FWB C02 and Air cylinders have the very same thread

I use 200 BAR for lessening the pumping by hand but 250 when I use the compressor.

Best Regards,

azuaro

Azuaro,,
Thanks again for your response with the detailed info. I will put it on order tonight! I can't wait. LOL.

My apologies, I thought my email address was available to members of this board: Chrisengineer AT myairguns.org with no spaces.

Anyway, you have graciously given me the key to to using my Model 2.
THANK YOU. I can't wait to fire up my "PCP" Model 2. It's been a long wait, LOL.
Humbly,
Chris

PS Do download the DVD ISO image. Most have found it a useful. It's worth the effort to download and then index with Copernic. Lot of neat info from tons of experienced airgunners. It's my contribution to this community.

Thank you to everyone again.

I printed out the page with the PCP adapter....and I guess someone found it on my desk, because it had a hand written phone number on it.
I can only guess Santa spouse found it--am I lucky or what!!

On top of that, I stopped by the local paint ball shop, and we tried to fill the cylinders per the instructions above. It took us some work --fill cylinder the first time, which only took about a half an ounce--slowly bleed/drain to completely chill the the tube, then refill. We got 1.5 ounces in each of my three cylinders--SUCCESS!

On top of that, I got to pick up a filled, used, steel 25# CO2 cylinder with one year hydro left, not pretty with surface rust, but very functional. All told, I walked out $47 lighter. I think I have enough C02 to last me a loooong time. Now I have an excuse to get a bulk fill adapter and paintball tank for my Crosman 160--now, I have to figure out how bulk my Crosman CK92

And, this paintball shop has a 5000psi compressor and does not mind filling scuba tanks at all, even my 3500psi 100cf tank. They stated that there are two PCP airgunners in the area who fire .50 cal muzzleloaders!?!

Today was a good day for this airgunner.

I hope it's not agains the rules, but Gair at Paintball Mart at 15737 San Pedro, San Antonio is great to work with.

THANKS again to all for their mentorship and help.

MERRY Christmas

Chris


CK92 info

http://www.co2airguns.net/collection/Cr ... /index.htm


http://translate.google.com/translate?h ... %26hs%3Dcz


http://translate.google.com/translate?h ... %26hs%3Dcz

NT=No Text

The reason why his pistol runs consistantly on air without a regulator is becasue the valve is somewhat self regulating.

Most pcp pistols have a regulator in addition, but with his model 2 as the air pressure lowers in the cylinder, the valve stays open longer becasue the hammer opens the valve further.

Usually airguns need to be tuned to achieve good consistancy, but it seems that the stock model 2 is suitable for co2.

While the cylinders are rated for 250bar MAX, I think the max pressure on most modern pcp's is a bit higher.

Azuaro and Chris, I know that this is an old thread but I wanted to thank you both for giving new life to my FWB C20.
An FWB adapter and Oring was all it took. My cylinders are rated to 250lbs but I only fill to 150 lbs. With 2 cylinders on hand I am a happy "plinker".

thanks again to you both.

proudpapa

I was wondering- doesn't co2 have oil in it that can combust at high pressure? I knw this is an old thread but I just bought a fwb model 2 this morning. It has no fill parts- I have two compressors so this interests me greatly.

Guest wrote:Hello Chris,

If you have followed all of the recommendations for filling your cylinders (replies above) and still have problems, then make sure that the tank or siphon are not clogged (open valve and check pressure)...If they are OK, then check that the seal's filter in the adapter is not clogged either...

I have a Mod 2 (short) that I love because of its weight and extreme accuracy, even though I currently shoot a FWB mod 56 rapid fire pistol that I also use as a single shot pistol; I shoot my Mod 2 as much as the new gun.

What I am going to tell you is controversial because in this forum we have many "know it all members", but anyhow I am going to tell you what I found:

I moved to Flathead Lake in MT and my nearest CO2 supplier is not close (about 70 miles) so I decided to convert my mod 2 to air (I have a 300 PSI compressor and hand pump for my P56).

Morini makes a kit for the C5 but not for the Mod 2 so I was told it could not be done....the kit for the C-5 and other C models is a new valve (regulator) and 2 air aluminum cylinders; it is sold anywhere from $300 up US dollars…
I am a mechanical engineer and was trained as "nothing is impossible as long as there are $ means and technology available”… so I decided to play around and find out what could be done...

The mod 2 has the pressure valves inside the cylinders, nothing wrong with this technology other that pressure can vary somewhat from cylinder to cylinder depending on the setting of the valves...

If you read on your cylinders you will find out that they can easily hold 200 BAR which is the pressure used for most PCP guns...actually, the MOD 2 steel cylinders are stamped to charge at a Max pressure of 250 BAR.

If you try to fill the CO2 cylinders with a pressure hand pump or compressor with a FWB PCP air adapter, you will have a leak at 20 BAR (between cylinder and adapter) caused by the short threading of the adapted vs., the long thread of the CO2 cylinder...

This leak is very easy to fix by adding an "O" ring to the adapter...then you can go to 200 bar WITHOUT ANY PROBLEMS...I have a lathe and was going to make an adapter but it was not necessary…

Going to 250 BAR with a hand pump is an extremely good work out! …But 200 BAR is good enough and very easy to pump...

I then checked the velocity and found out that it was way too high (close to 700 fps) vs. the velocity I was getting with CO2 (507 fps)...I used a Chrony before and after the modification….

Regulating velocity is done by turning the screw behind the grips (the upper screw) which is used for this purpose….I readjusted the velocity screw (counterclockwise) for about the same 507 fps average and I have shot air for the last year very successfully with the same or better accuracy.

I never noticed the effects of change in point of impact, varying pressure or nothing with CO2 so I am as happy shooting air as I was shooting CO2…

I never quite fully understood why I was getting more velocity with air vs. CO2 with the same adjustment in the gun…CO2 gets into the chamber in liquid form and then expands so the volume required for a given velocity is less for CO2 than for air so the effect should have been the opposite…

I used to get about 150 shots with CO2 and now I am getting about ½ with air (80 to 100 depending on the air pressure 200 BAR or 250 BAR)

The only explanation I found as an engineer is that the volume of liquid CO2 that the Mod 2 gets in the chamber is dictated by the striking force in the firing pin opening or hitting the valve in the CO2 cylinder…a valve regulated for liquid needs a harder “push” than the same valve regulated for air, the cylinder valve allows CO2 at a much lower pressure that pure air and more pressure equals more velocity assuming that the volume of gases is enough for propelling the pellet…

Note: I have not done any testing in gas volumes or velocities of gases so please don’t take this explanation as the bible…I am pretty sure that this will be controversial…

The only drawbacks: You will not get as many shots as you do with CO2 as mentioned above and YOU WILL GET A LOT OF THE ATTENTION of the “know it all experts”….they will tell you unfounded things such as being “very dangerous”, “To have an expert do it”, “lack of accuracy”, etc…

It took some time for “KNOW IT ALL GUYS” around here to accept that all a $.25 modification was all that it was needed…

All I can tell you is that with a $.25 “O” ring I switched the gun to air and it shoots equal or better than my $2,000 + Feinwerkbau P56…and YES…there is such a thing as a DUAL PROPELLANT gun assuming that you readjust the velocity…

Keep your Mod 2 and be sure that whoever tells you that is obsolete or that there are better things out there, be sure that they have never owned one.

Best regards,

AZUARO
Flathead Lake, MT

Well I am no expert but co2 should be just that, co2, no oil or other impurities. If there were any oil I doubt it would ignite in a co2 atmosphere without free oxygen.

I borrowed my mod2 to my brother some time ago and am not sure if I will see it again :D otherwise I might try the air conversion thing. Just wondering if there would be much condensation. I think purpose-made airgun compressors have safeguards for that but not sure how much of a problem it could be.

Most shooters would use food grade CO2 used in drinks trade which would definitely be pure.
Maybe you're thinking of Crosman CO2 capsules which contain lube oil. The pressure of CO2 is too low to ignite anything and anyway CO2 is used in fire extinguishers
Again I think you are remembering the need to omit oil and grease from O2 fittings, not CO2.

Wow,

After 10 years this thread still lives!

So does my FWB Model 2. I use CO2 exclusively.
I used air (1600-1700 psi) a few times; it's OK but the volume (bark) and velocity goes up significantly.
It'd make a great small game (squirrel/rabbit) hunting pistol using air.

Funny thing is I got a Steyr LP10E for my son and an LP5 (non-working that I fixed) afterwords. This is a dangerous hobby (but still less expensive than firearms and I can shoot at home!)

My FWB Model 2 is still my favorite gun to shoot.
I just love the way pellets are loaded. Drop the pellet in the tray and close the bolt.
I'm challenged fat fingering pellets into a barrel and I think that introduces some additional variability too.

My son no longer shoots. I use the LP5 as a "reward" with my new junior shooters when they reach a goal (I coach at NTCSC--we're always looking for new coaches if you're in the area!). I also use the LP5 to give new shooters' parents a taste of shooting after their kids have shot for several months--they always walk away humbled and impressed by what their kids are able to accomplish by then. :-)

Diver's silicon or food grade silicon is all I've used on o-rings. Stripped, cleaned, and lubed the gun with Krytox back in 2010 and it still works like a dream.

Funny thing--I ordered a "new" FWB cylinder to meet the ISSF/USA Shooting 10 year rule...and got a cylinder that was older than my original but laser etched with a new date. My opinion is that these cylinders, rated for high pressure air, will last practically forever when used with CO2 (don't mean to open a discussion on the new rule--I agree with it, and yes, I understand the issues, physics, material stress, risks, etc. as I'm an experienced engineer (BS, MS) and been diving for 30 years with my original steel 100CF tank. I respect everything under high pressure.)

Chris__Colorado
PS I bought a complete rebuild kit from our host for the LP10e two years ago and did the work myself. It's a beautiful combination of electrical and mechanical engineering. I "only" lost one part that required a 2nd parts order. It was a great experience, but if you only have one gun, you'd likely be much better served to have our host do the service. I learned (you can teach and old dog new tricks) and had them service my LP5 :-) and it works great.

http://www.usashooting.org/membership/4 ... ne/ntcinfo

Oh wow, I'm so glad this thread is still allowing replies!

I've learnt so much just from this thread. I have a FWB Model 2 and since owning it have always presumed it was PCP and it came with an adapter that fits directly on my air tank.

It's just been sent for a service and the chap rang me to clarify if I was using Co2 or Air. I never knew it could have been Co2. I'd usually get 40 shots from a fill and assume that was normal.

I understand the expansion differentials ect and why that impacts on shot count but reading that some others out there also fill with air has given me hope that I'm not alone!

I'd love to see some pictures of how you guys are filling the cylinders with Co2. I've read stories of people using fire extinguisher tanks with Co2 inside but have no idea what adaptors they're using.

As for the pistol itself, it's awesome. Accurate and a pleasure to use. It's left handed so a bit like hens teeth to find. Since owning it I've managed to save up for a Steyr LP2. I don't shoot in a club, just against a friend online via video competitions between ourselves.

I'll post pictures of what I have once it's back from the service guy.

Thank you all for your knowledge and expertise.