TargetTalk

I have been told many times not to keep track of my score when shooting, but am wondering, is it "allright" for each time you shoot to have a specific score you would like to shoot as a goal? This is just for general training/practice, not a match.

Thanks!
Jordan

Jordan:

Keep "score" and set goals/track progress against the number/percentage of times you execute the desired (proper) behaviors you are training toward.

The holes in the paper- which you can't control- will follow.

Steve

Goals come in two flavors: Outcome and Process.

Outcome goals (like winning the match or shooting a good score) motivate you. And keep you coming back to the range to train.

Process goals (like proper shot execution) make outcome goals happen.

I don't keep track of score. I think about shooting a ten. I can't change the last shot, I can't shoot the next shot, so I focus on this shot. I may use previous shots to adjust my sights or compensate for the wind, other than that, ignored.

You get the most success if you can focus on here and now. Make this shot good, score takes care of itself.

Thanks Tim - I learned alot from your post!

Tim Conrad wrote:Goals come in two flavors: Outcome and Process.

Outcome goals (like winning the match or shooting a good score) motivate you. And keep you coming back to the range to train.

Process goals (like proper shot execution) make outcome goals happen.

I don't keep track of score. I think about shooting a ten. I can't change the last shot, I can't shoot the next shot, so I focus on this shot. I may use previous shots to adjust my sights or compensate for the wind, other than that, ignored.

You get the most success if you can focus on here and now. Make this shot good, score takes care of itself.

I think you've got your ideas of goals mixed up. Yes you can have outcome and process goals but outcome goals, such as a score, are not conducive to good shooting. They also have no motivational power. Motivational goals are things like making the finals in x event or getting selected for the national team. Those sort of things have the power to make you stretch for those goals and in so doing help you generate the drive to train effectively and perfect the technical factors.

I do however agree with you on the last bit. We need to focus on the shot in the gun and that alone and focus on producing a technically good shot. Do that 60 times and the score will follow.

Rob.

Outcome goals vary from person to person. Making the final, shooting a good score, making the national team are all motivating, for different people. They are the things you want to achieve. They are why you compete. If you focus on them during the competition, you probably won't shoot as well. That's where the process goals take over. Focus on the process and a good outcome is more likely.

I consider shooting a good score very motivating. Never shot a 600 in prone, nor a 1600 in conventional. 598/1599 so far. I'll keep working on it. I don't think about that during the match, just putting this shot in the ten ring. That takes all (and sometimes a bit more) of my ability.

Jordan, you have hit on one of the most difficult concepts for a coach to handle when working with a shooter. There can be many types of goals a shooter thinks about when they are shooting whether at practice or in a match, all of them can be helpful as motivation. Others in the thread have mentioned the most important idea of focusing on the shot in the rifle.

I work with shooters to not look at scores as much as the last shot. When the shot is completed, look at the target. If a good shot, take several seconds and "replay" the shot plan that you completed. Go through the entire shot and review every part of the shot plan-body position, balance, sight alignment, sight picture, breath, trigger control, follow through. Your goal for the next shot is to repeat that same shot plan.

When you check a target and it is not a good shot, do the same review, this time identify what you missed in your shot plan.

As a coach I try to teach a shot to shot mentality in practice and a match. As others have said, learn to shoot one focused shot at a time, and the all of the other goals that you want to achieve will be yours.

Our club has taken a little phrase as a motto.

For just one second the entire universe is one inch in diameter.


Joe

Thanks Joe and Ron for the additional comments (greatly appreciated!).

I like that last sentance, Joe.

I suscribe to the notion that goals to be effective must satisfy the personality of the shooter and provide meaningful motivation for him/her. Jim and Joe seem to be closest in their discriptions of possible approaches to the concept I am trying to put forth.. If you are facinated be complicated processes you might be best described as one to whom mastery would be a strong motivator. If your drive is sustained by trying to beat every one on the firing line then you are probably better characterized as a dominator. I dont understand how a shooter could be motivated by money as I only spend it , I dont win enough to ever compensate for the expense. Maybe this would also apply to tha shooter that is motivated by trophies. Recognition by ones peers can motivate many shooters. Hopefully this is enough to illustrate just how complicated this goals and motivation issue seems to be. Maybe a good coach can help the shooter work out an approach but my best guess is that he is own his own to resolve this problem. Good Shooting, Bill Horton

Thanks...

I find shooting a good score is motivating to me - probably more in fact then winning match - or getting a gold metal in my class. I find winning - although it maybe gives me a bit of confidence is not as good as shooting a good score. Shooting a good score means I executed a good performance where as winning doesn't mean too much (just tells you about the other competitors).

I pritned off a diary type sheet that outlined a bunch of shooting aspects (i.e. concentration, preparation, physical, start attitude, end attitude, etc) with a skale of 1 - 10 that I rate my performance on. I am going to try and rate all of these each time but try to concentrate on 2 or 3 of them in particular (there are about 10 in all).

Jordan:

Now you are on the right track- just be absolutely sure you are listing the "right" ten things!

The important part of the exercise is to list not just a phrase ("Concentration") but a descriptyion of what it is esactly you are trying to accomplish. Better to write 3 descriptions (see below) for perfect, near perfect,a dn typical/flawed.

Also it has been my experience that 1-10 is 1) false precision and 2) tedious to use.

A much better scale is "Perfect," "Near Perfect," and "Typical" with the added catgegory of "Grossly Flawed."

Oh and yes- don't try scoring every action across all four/five critical items (can't imagine where ten came from) every singel time. When you train, different drills have different focus areas, right? Score the focus areas (generally one or two items only; well, for live fire on a bull target, maybe three) only- and mix up your training focus between adn during sessions.

Good Luck!

Steve Swartz

Thanks Steve for the additional information

The ten areas for rating performance on are:

Start Attitude
Preparation
Concentration
Physical
Technical
End Attitude
Arousal
Ease
Mental
Overall

I find myself right now more just "practicing" what I have learned over the past couple months as I have a shooting match coming up with in the next week and a half but when it comes to training after the match (for the next match) I will try to focus on 2 or 3 of these aspects. But for now I think I will keep on "plugging away" and then start a more serious plan after the match.

Thanks!

As Steve mentioned ,you may find it necessary to simplify. After all shooting is not atomic science. As coach Hall says " shooting a ten should be an easy process." In my own case I shot well by applying my every effort in controling my mental shooting program, very intense training efforts , and adjusting my mental intensity to the level where I have the best results. That may be what many shooters call "Being in the zone" But what I remember most is a lot of damned hard work perfecting every aspect of my shooting performance.I hope we have been of some help to you and success follows your efforts. Good Shooting Bill Horton

Jordan:

It appears you are evaluating yourself on things I would probably consider "indirect" behaviors.

My advice would be to focus on "direct" behaviors like:

- Was the front sight in crisp, intense focus immediately before, during, and immediately after the shot?

- Was I concentrating on maintaining the alignment of the sights perfectly immediately before, during, and immediately after the shot?

- Was the relationship between the front sight blade and rear sight notch affecged in any way by the trigger manipulation?

etc.

If you can perfect these behaviors, perfect shots will follow. In order to perfect these behaviors, all other issues must be developed.

The "behavior framework" also provides a somewhat nifty way to organize your training efforts . . . .

Steve

Thanks for all the help guys! Definately a lot of help!

One comment though kind of brought me to my next question. How can you train to learn mental aspects of shooting? It this just aquired through shooting or are there particular drills or other things similar to that you can do to obtain these mental skills?

Thanks!

I am going to have to do a lot of guessing here as I am no expert on how the mind works however I believe the mind naturally recieves information fron the sensors . It evaluates the information , decides to ignore that which is unimportant at the moment , Or assign a priority to it and examines it further. Next would be highest priority and the mind would then concentrate total mental effort on that issue. But note that the normal process is to be constantly shifting fron one bit of sensory input to another evaluating and assigning priorities to each. The shooters mind should be moving in a controlled manner going step by step through the shot process. I believe Steve has trained so completely on movement of the trigger finger that he may never think about it at all and spends his total mental effort on perfecting sight allignment. My application of trigger presure is started by a mental command and allowed to continue uninterupted until the shot is fired. Once the finger is moving my thought process goes to the same place Steves does. That is total concentration on perfecting sight sllignment until after the shot fires.Repetition of the process is how you train to do this, The emotional issue is a bit different as you can be too tense to shoot your best and need to relax mentally and physically before firing the next shot. See Coach Halls writting on this technique elsewhere on this forum. There is one [At least] more thing you may have to consider and that is being too relaxed and unable to summon the intensity to make yourself deliver the shot properly. I found that I could challenge myself by looking at my toughest competitors target and build the determination the beat him. This can be dangerous as you can very easily trigger too much intensity. The important thing is to determine the level at which your performance is at its best and learn to tighten up or relax as the conditions require. Good Shooting Bill Horton

Mental training has many aspects and hundreds of references.

Try the link to this page and check out this book:

http://www.pilkguns.com/books.shtml

Mental training in shooting
by Anne Grethe Jeppeseen

This book is a real asset to any shooters library. Written by a Norway Olympic coach and former top shooter, who also happens to be the wife of Harald Steenvag (one of the world’s top rifle shooters for many many years).

The book gives clear and concise ideas with instruction in the mental arena, taking general ideas from mental success in business and other sports and applying them specifically to the sport of shooting. Ideas and concepts are quoted from numerous sources including some of the American giants in the field like Bill Pullum and Lanny Basshum.

I forgot to mention the famous quote from Buljoung "Thinking?, I dont do no stinkin' thinking." Different strokes for different folks. Good Shooting, Bill Horton

Wow! Thanks for the responces guys - couldn't ask for much better replies.

I recently aquired a new book (actually a shooter that I know was kind enough to give it to me). It is called Inernational rifle guide (prepared for United states army marksmanship unit). It deals with some mental aspects and is very too the point.

I was looking for some more books though - and it looks like that mental training and shooting might be a good choice. I will ask though; how does this book ("mental training in shooting") compare with the book by lanny bassham "With winning in mind". Would it be beneficial to get both of them?

2650 - thanks for the additional info again; a lot of help!

Jordan F wrote:Wow! Thanks for the responces guys - couldn't ask for much better replies.

I recently aquired a new book (actually a shooter that I know was kind enough to give it to me). It is called Inernational rifle guide (prepared for United states army marksmanship unit). It deals with some mental aspects and is very too the point.

I was looking for some more books though - and it looks like that mental training and shooting might be a good choice. I will ask though; how does this book ("mental training in shooting") compare with the book by lanny bassham "With winning in mind". Would it be beneficial to get both of them?

2650 - thanks for the additional info again; a lot of help!

Jordan if you can try the book that was mentioned above "Mental training in shooting by Anne Grethe Jeppeseen " its very good, it offers drills and examples. it's very user friendly its not like a psychology text book. If your coming to the Grand Prix you can get them there or from either International Imports or Cibles Canada Targets.