TargetTalk

European Championships
9th - 22nd July, 2007 - Granada, ESP
"Kids" Free pistol scores....:

http://www.esc-shooting.org/result/2007 ... /fp_jm.pdf

I saw those earlier this week. Some great scores for juniors - the winner on 569 if I recall correctly - that's a world class adult score !

Rob.

The young man who won the JM Free Pistol (569) also won the JM 25m Pistol (585).

Does anybody know what score he shot in the JM Rapid Fire Pistol before being disqualified at the post-match trigger check.

Ekimov is one tallented young guy. If I recall correctly he is 19 years old and in the last european championship for air weapons held earlier this year in France he won the AP competition in the adult category with 588.
The russians have so many top level shooters and ekimov only 19 is one of them

A very interesting and thought provoking post indeed Russ!

The question that should be coming to mind is why don't we (USA) have that many juniors shooting at that level? Or for that matter, why don't we have that many adults shooting at that level?

Hmmmmmmm..........................

Matt

Simple, because we don't have any top level coaches.

After russians started coaching chinese they improved significantly, and now kick ass. Anatoliy Poddubniy now coaches in Brazil, and his students are now earning medals in world cups.

Recipe is simple: assign a talented motivated beginner to a top-level coach and in two years you have a world-class shooter.


Most of us have no other choice other than to crawl from 550 to 565 in 5 years and then stagnate there forever.

Guest:

I agree with you generally. Certainly, in the US we don't have a "system" at all for pistol; and hardly a "system" for rifle.

I also agree 90% on the second part of your statement. I personally have had very little formal coaching; and what little I have had has been somewhat recent. The coaching I had when I started (in Bullseye, circa 1998 or so) was very spotty- consisted of listening to a variety of top shooters describe in quite very different terms what we all should be doing. Very confusing. Truly, "The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly" from "top shooters."

To be perfectly honest, I pretty much had to figure out a whole lot of stuff on my own. I had a lot of "So that's what he meant!" epiphanies along the way.

Yur'Yevs book, the USAMU manuals, etc. etc. all provided a great deal of utility, but no breakthroughs. There is a large volume of very good "fundamentals" type info out there- but all of that will get you to exactly where you're talking about- stagnant mediocrity.

The breakthroughs came from within.

I wonder, now, in retrospect- would better coaching have gotten me to great scores in AP/FP any sooner? Would it have allowed me to hang on to those scores longer, and/or more consistently? Quite probably- especially based on what happens in other countries.

Or

Having gotten to world class scores on my own, was it just a matter of being able to train more often, more consistently, "full time" as it were?

Maybe a combination of both?

Work sucks. Being a "True Amateur"* sucks even more. It especially sucks when those scores seem so far away today . . .

Damn, I love this sport!

Steve Swartz

*Bill Demarest did it the hard way too- no full time/government sponsorship for him, either! I find myself very inspired by the guys who seek and achieve success by carving out 10-15 hrs a week of training time around full time work, family, etc. . . .

Steve, it's the old fashioned DESIRE, COMMITMENT, GOALS, PRACTISE, PRACTISE, ANALYZE, PRACTISE, PRACTISE etc. The Europeans have only the "International Shooting Sports" events to turn to, whilst we have IDPA, IPSC, Cowboy Action & Bullseye that turns heads faster here than a TOZ, Morini, Walther etc. How many 50, 25 metre ranges exist in the US? Nevertheless we do produce some great shooters but are old and gray in the face of upcoming numbers of 19 year olds who shoot world record scores. The USA will never be any real competition for the Europeans as our youth shooters are quickly lured away by the good life. What kid wouldn't choose rifle opposed to pistol, when there are those cute fancy leather jackets, trousers, boots and the total acoutery. Once the novelty wears off and the practise becomes a "drudgery", we see the equipment on sale in this forum---there goes another drop in the percentages of the USA shooting commitment. Even bullseye is on a fairly rapid decrease in numbers. Our local Long Island 2700's have disappeared and attendance at rare shoots has dropped off including winter leagues. Ranges and clubs disappear like the minutes of the day. Gun shooting is uncool, I wore a souvenir shirt from the New York State Pistol Team (substitute) to do some shopping and you should have heard the raft I took from one total jerk while buying cold cuts. That's what we are facing in increasing amounts from day to day from the government as well.

funtoz wrote:We have no infrastructure. Building infrastructure take time away from immediate medals. The USOC would rather have a few medals now, than lots of medals later.

My hat's off to the true amateurs. Shooters in the US make it in spite of their NGB.

Larry

I really doubt it's that simple, it's more to do with money. If any governing body had the money available to be able to pay loads of full time shooters they would, and results would improve. With that would come full time coaches. But shooting sports just don't attract the attention and serious funding just isn't going to happen.

I don't think building infrastructure need take away from current medal prospects, rather it should improve the prospects. But once again it's the lack of funding that's holding things back.

Rob.

"......Most of us have no other choice other than to crawl from 550 to 565 in 5 years and then stagnate there forever."

Even 550 sounds too optimistic to me :(
At 2007 USAS National we have only three Athletes who able to score over
550:


TURNER Jason AA 567 554 1121
SZARENSKI Daryl AA 554 558 1112
HURT Dwaine A 552 544 1096
ROSE Thomas AA 549 544 1093

Let's face reality guys....

Russ wrote: Even 550 sounds too optimistic to me :(
At 2007 USAS National we have only three Athletes who able to score over
550:

Let's face reality guys....

That sounds very negative to me Russ ! Yes it maybe realistic but that's just a snapshot in time. It's up to you and all the other coaches out there to help turn it around ;-) Otherwise you don't stand a cat in hells chance of medalling in the olympics.

Rob.

RobStubbs wrote:

Russ wrote: Even 550 sounds too optimistic to me :(
At 2007 USAS National we have only three Athletes who able to score over
550:

Let's face reality guys....

That sounds very negative to me Russ ! Yes it maybe realistic but that's just a snapshot in time. It's up to you and all the other coaches out there to help turn it around ;-) Otherwise you don't stand a cat in hells chance of medalling in the olympics.

Rob.

No, Rob it is not negative...... It is positive and optimistic!
First step is evaluation.....You have to understand where you are right now! And what should be done to get to the certain score performance....

I do my part of the job.... even more... I start compete by myself.... I hope some day I'll have some more time and will start practice :)

Rob Stubbs wrote:
"about...chance of medalling in the olympics......"

I think we have to win this competition first:.... #36 The World's Billionaires #36 by Forbes Vladimir Lisin President of the Russian Shooting Union
http://www.shooting-russia.ru/en/?page=3.1.0

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2007/10/07b ... _U3S0.html

Who is representing your Shooting union Mr.? Which way? Are you happy about it?
Why your scores still on same place?

Guest 76 wrote:Rob Stubbs wrote:
"about...chance of medalling in the olympics......"

I think we have to win this competition first:.... #36 The World's Billionaires #36 by Forbes Vladimir Lisin President of the Russian Shooting Union
http://www.shooting-russia.ru/en/?page=3.1.0

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2007/10/07b ... _U3S0.html

Who is representing your Shooting union Mr.? Which way? Are you happy about it?
Why your scores still on same place?

I wonder if he's interested in adopting a poor Canadian!!!!!

Richard H wrote:
"I wonder if he's interested in adopting a poor Canadian!!!!!"

How about Angelina Jolie? She is on adoption mood right now.....

USA results panam games:

Today (july, 17 2007) Jason Turner win the firs place in air pistol, with panamerican record, he makes 579 points and 99 in finals.

Thomas Rose make 578 with the 3 place, with 578 points.



Nano

AP scores PanAm Games:

http://www.rio2007.org.br/data/pages/8C ... 3B5496.htm

David Levene wrote:The young man who won the JM Free Pistol (569) also won the JM 25m Pistol (585).

Leonid Ekimov has just shot even better in the 50m Pistol at the Universiade in Bangkok; 571 + 93.3 = 664.3

It'll be very interesting to see how he does in the other events.

Something tells me that this teenager's got a promising future ;-)

David Levene wrote:

David Levene wrote:The young man who won the JM Free Pistol (569) also won the JM 25m Pistol (585).

Leonid Ekimov has just shot even better in the 50m Pistol at the Universiade in Bangkok; 571 + 93.3 = 664.3

It'll be very interesting to see how he does in the other events.

Something tells me that this teenager's got a promising future ;-)

RUS - EKIMOV Leonid 96 98 91 95 95 96 571 GR
http://info.bangkok2007.com/

Nice score ..... Let's see about AP performance at Monday, 13 August 2007?