TargetTalk

Hi list, I just found this sit. Great info, although I only shoot bullseye. What 22 gun would you folks recommend for a bullseye shooter? I currently shoot a S@W 41. It only reliably shoots CCI. When I put the gun in the rest with CCI at 50yrds.....well it's not good. I can get a great group out of other ammo, but don't trust the gun in a match. I've been saving for a new 22 and would really appreciate the list's suggestions.
Thanks
Scott

Hi Scott,
I had exactly the same problem with my model 41. The original short barrel would only reliably shoot CCI, and the groups were bad (and all the unreliable ammo grouped great). I bought a long barrel form Gil Hebbard, and although it's also only reliable with CCI, it shoots great groups.

I'm currently shooting a Pardini, fantastic gun. Worth every penny.

Steve.

Scott,
I agree with Steve's recommendation on the Pardini. I also shoot an IZH35. Either pistol is far superior to the M41. I sold mine.

The M41 can be made to shoot. A friend, a high master BE shooter, has an M41 that shoots great groups and is reliable, but it has a custom barrel and has been completely rebuilt. I would just as soon put the money into a Pardini.

Fred

Agreed!! My S&W 41, an very early model with Olympic weights, shoots fantastic groups. But, it is picky with ammo. Also, the ergonomics of the 41 leave a lot to be desired for my hand. I find the Pardini SP to be a much better fit for my hand. It is extremely reliable. It is also wonderfully accurate. I have used mine informally in free pistol practic matches. The scores weren't too much below my average with my Hammerli 160.
When I bought my Pardini I had never actually handled one. But a few conversations with Don Nygord (he is sorely missed!!) regarding balance, fit, etc. convinced me. I think you would be happy with the Pardini. By the way, if you are using it for NRA bullseye, you may wish to find one with the Nygord "Master" grip. This grip was designed by Don for Bullseye, especially to counter the shift in balance caused by a dot sight. I do believe it borrows heavily from the grip found on the K22 free pistol. It has a greater amount of palm shelf and just enough wrap around to comply with NRA rules.

Scott,

I'll also endorse the Pardini SP. However, many have reported that it is also finnicky about the amo you feed it. Accuracy is superb as are the ergonomics.

When I first got mine, it would function reliably only with Wolf and RWS (Nygord reccommended) ammo. After 15K rounds or so, it has become much less picky and I can now shoot the less expensive Aguila and PMC. Although the PMC and Aguila are not as reliable as the Wolf and RWS, they work just fine for training. It absolutely hates CCI ammo - too long for the mags.

If you go with the Pardini, keep at least two recoil springs and a firing pin on hand as spare parts. Don Nygord recommended changing out the recoil spring at 3-5000 rounds and he was right.

Good luck in your choice.

Hi guys, thanks for your responses. I think I'm going with the Pardini SP New. Should I get the scope mount or is this not needed?
Scott

scott4687 wrote:Hi guys, thanks for your responses. I think I'm going with the Pardini SP New. Should I get the scope mount or is this not needed?
Scott

Depends on what type of shooting you do. ISSF is iron sights only, NRA BE allows either iron sights or optical.

On my older Pardini SP, there is a groove in the top of the receiver that you can mount a ring to. I've used the Millett vertically split aluminium rings and filed the bottom to get them to to fit in the groove. If the new ones still have the groove, I'd go with that as it would be lighter, but the mount is probably easier.

One of the advantages of the SP for me is that mine with a 1" ultradot weighs almost exactly the same as a model 41 with the 7" barrel and iron sights, about 43 oz. which is a good weight for me.

Steve.

scott4687 wrote:I think I'm going with the Pardini SP New. Should I get the scope mount or is this not needed?

You'll be very happy with the Pardini. Re: the red dot, this is personal choice obviously, but for NRA Bullseye, I use one, which is why I have two Pardini SPs (well, actually, one's an SP New.) One is setup for NRA rules with a 30mm Aimpoint red dot and 2 lb trigger and the other for international with iron sights and a 1 kg trigger.

If you'd like to mount a red dot on a Pardini, you do need rings that have been modified to give a tight grip on the little grooves in the Pardini receiver. Ordinary rings don't come to a sharp enough edge to grip and will slide around after a few shots. I got my rings from Don Nygord; he made them by milling off the whole bottom of each ring. But I believe Larry Carter can supply something similar.

Re: the red dot itself, I really like my Aimpoints. (I have two 30mm and one 1 in.) But unfortunately, they're pretty expensive and hard to get, so I hesitate to recommend them except to those for whom I know cost is no object. Easier to get at a far more reasonable cost are the Ultradots, available from Larry Carter. As far as size, that also is personal taste but having tried both (and having let other shooters look through both) I find that most people who actually try both decide they like the larger tube. (A lot of folks who insist that 1 in is better have never tried a 30mm, so far as I can tell.) With 30mm, you get a better field of view and the weight difference is negligible.

Nicole Hamilton wrote:

scott4687 wrote:I think I'm going with the Pardini SP New. Should I get the scope mount or is this not needed?

...
Re: the red dot itself, I really like my Aimpoints. (I have two 30mm and one 1 in.) But unfortunately, they're pretty expensive and hard to get, so I hesitate to recommend them except to those for whom I know cost is no object. Easier to get at a far more reasonable cost are the Ultradots, available from Larry Carter. As far as size, that also is personal taste but having tried both (and having let other shooters look through both) I find that most people who actually try both decide they like the larger tube. (A lot of folks who insist that 1 in is better have never tried a 30mm, so far as I can tell.) With 30mm, you get a better field of view and the weight difference is negligible.

Hi

I just copied the part I'm commenting on. I actually liked the 1 inch better than the 30mm. I don't have a valid reason, but I did. The second thing is that buying rings for a 30mm is a much bigger pain that buying 1 inch rings. As a rule, the 30mm rings only come in medium height or higher, while you can get low mounted 1 inch rings. Right now I'm shooting iron sights only, and have a 30mm Ultra dot in the case. I would have to comment that if there's something better than an Ultradot it must be pretty good.

Mike
Wichita KS

mikeschroeder wrote:[ I would have to comment that if there's something better than an Ultradot it must be pretty good.

Mike,
I have an ADCO red dot on my Pardini. This is the open model - without a tube. I like it a lot - much lighter than the Ultradot and has a nice round 10 min dot which covers the black out to the 8 ring. It does have parallax, so you do have to keep the dot centered. Ultradot has now brought out some open models, but their 4 min dot is too small for my taste.

mikeschroeder wrote:I would have to comment that if there's something better than an Ultradot it must be pretty good.

It is. :) There's a reason why the US military (with a more-or-less unlimited budget) uses Aimpoints. They really are that good, just really expensive.

I would go for the Walther SSP. The Gsp has done well for decades, and as far as I can tell this is THE gun for the future

THAT must be the reason I see more MG2's around than SSP's - nobody likes to speculate about the future...

Fozzy357 wrote:I would go for the Walther SSP. The Gsp has done well for decades, and as far as I can tell this is THE gun for the future

Interesting philosphy. From my understanding the SSP is very much NOT the gun of now or the future unless things have very recently changed. The pardini is still the most popular on the world stage if I remember rightly.

Rob.

I had a Pardini SP 10 years ago. It was not ammo fussy BUT it broke a LOT. Screws would back out the extractor went flying through the air. You name it. I bought a Hammerli 208S in 1999 and never looked back or ahead for that matter! I love it.

If you wanted a Airpistol, I would say a choice of 2? Free pistol - same a choice of 2?
A .22 semi auto, there seems to be no one outstanding pistol.

You should pick on
1/ A current production pistol. Parts for some of the older pistols are now very hard to get. (Hammerli 208/280's, Unique's, Early Walthers, Domino's etc)
2/ A pistol that fits you. ie a FWB AW93 is a great pistol, but no good if you have short fingers (full metal grip frame)
3/ A pistol that is imported in your local area and has support. There are some good European pistols that may not be available in the US.

Most of the pistols seem to have at least some issues with them, feeding/ malfunctions or quality / material control problems.
Look at your local club, try different pistols, find one you like and buy it.
Best of Luck.

David M wrote:If you wanted a Airpistol, I would say a choice of 2? Free pistol - same a choice of 2?

What choices would these be?

Jim

Capt. William wrote:

David M wrote:If you wanted a Airpistol, I would say a choice of 2? Free pistol - same a choice of 2?

What choices would these be?

Jim

I'm guessing, but I think David M is referring to the two most common brands seen at the big international matches. These are Steyr and Morini air pistols and Morini and Toz free pistols. In fact the choices are much broader than that.

Fred Mannis wrote:

Capt. William wrote:

David M wrote:If you wanted a Airpistol, I would say a choice of 2? Free pistol - same a choice of 2?

What choices would these be?

Jim

I'm guessing, but I think David M is referring to the two most common brands seen at the big international matches. These are Steyr and Morini air pistols and Morini and Toz free pistols. In fact the choices are much broader than that.

But if most top shooters are using these choices, I wouldn't argue with success. :-)

Jim