TargetTalk

Is there a method to practice standard pistol (the 20/10 sec series) not using live fire?

Are there any good dry fire practices for standard pistol ?

I'm using a High Standard pistol .

Thanks in advance .

In my limited experience getting the first shot off smoothly and quickly in the timed fire is the key. The remaining shots follow (literallly!).

Practising the raise and first shot (dry fire with a snap cap) is therefore important, the remaining shots you really need to do through live fire.

To do it properly you need to be practising the raise to the right height as you, to do this go to the range, take up the aim, get someone to measure under the pistols muzzle, repeat at home and set your aiming mark so your pistol is at the correct height.

I have made an Izh35 clone with an OSP 5 shot training trigger converted to 1000g which is fun, not sure how useful though.

This is self serving---please go to www.concept42.net and look at the DVD there offered.

Tillman

Hard to raise the TV set up to 1.4m!!!?

Depends on how serious one is about the practice :-)

Actually, it is easy to find a place for a computer screen or a flat screen at an appropriate height...I use a laptop with a DVD program for my practice. It fits nicely on top of a clothes cabinet.

As to raising the household 32 to 100 inch TV up...well, there is a SOAF (Significant Other Acceptance Factor) to be considered.

Tillman

Get something with an electronic trigger

JY

IMHO, other than possibly for first shot training, even if you have a multi-shot dry firing trigger, dry fire training for the ISSF Standard Pistol match is pretty pointless and not effective.

Unless you can simulate the recoil, however small it may be, you will be training for a completely different match. Recoil control and trigger control during the recoil are such important factors that, if they are missing, your time would probably be more effectively spent in mental rehearsal.

For the same reason, training with anything other than your match ammunition may not be as useful as you would hope.

Although I was never a particularly good Rapid Fire shooter I would imagine that the above comments would equally apply to that match now that it is shot with a Standard Pistol.

(I did not make the above comments to start an arguement but would not be surprised if one ensues.)

David Levene wrote:IMHO, other than possibly for first shot training, even if you have a multi-shot dry firing trigger, dry fire training for the ISSF Standard Pistol match is pretty pointless and not effective.

Unless you can simulate the recoil, however small it may be, you will be training for a completely different match. Recoil control and trigger control during the recoil are such important factors that, if they are missing, your time would probably be more effectively spent in mental rehearsal.

For the same reason, training with anything other than your match ammunition may not be as useful as you would hope.

Although I was never a particularly good Rapid Fire shooter I would imagine that the above comments would equally apply to that match now that it is shot with a Standard Pistol.

(I did not make the above comments to start an arguement but would not be surprised if one ensues.)

Totally agree with your comments on the timed fire portion of Standard Pistol. I have never shot Rapid Fire, but would think that dry fire training with an electronic trigger would be helpful in establishing rhythm/timing across the five targets.

Fred Mannis wrote:I have never shot Rapid Fire, but would think that dry fire training with an electronic trigger would be helpful in establishing rhythm/timing across the five targets.

As I said Fred, I am no expert on Rapid Fire but I would imagine that the recoil of the .22LR would significantly change the rhythm and timing. Take it out of the equation and you will be training for the old .22 Short RF match.

I'm not sure if you can find an attachment point on your High Standard, but for other guns I use a piece of lacing twine with one end connected to my slide and the other wrapped around a spare magazine. I take my normal stance and place my off hand (holding the twine wrapped magazine) against my center chest area with the twine a bit loose. Then when I dry fire, I cycle the slide by tugging the twine. If I want to work on follow through, I delay cycling for a moment.

For the High Standard you might need to be creative in how you connect the twine, but a common dry fire method for them is to place a wide rubber band around the slide, which holds it open a little. You might be able to wrap twine around it in a similar manner. I'm not suer if this will work with the straddle type rear sight.

I hope I've given you some ideas to work with. I've noticed I get in a lot more dry fires with this method...

Take Care,
Ed Hall
http://www.airforceshooting.org/
http://www.starreloaders.com/edhall/

David Levene wrote:

Fred Mannis wrote:I have never shot Rapid Fire, but would think that dry fire training with an electronic trigger would be helpful in establishing rhythm/timing across the five targets.

As I said Fred, I am no expert on Rapid Fire but I would imagine that the recoil of the .22LR would significantly change the rhythm and timing. Take it out of the equation and you will be training for the old .22 Short RF match.

I shoot a little bit of rapid with my SP1 electronic and I don't really think the dry firing helps. You need to force of the recoil to help transition between targets. Shooting it in dry fire mode is nothing like the real thing and doesn't really help your timings or your positioning on transition across the targets.

Rob.

My response would echo that of Rob. I've shot a bit of RF with several different guns and bought the Pardini SP1 Electronic in order to get the benefit of the electronic trigger for dry-fire training. In the long run I've found this doesn't make enough difference to matter, so the SP1 Electronic is now for sale.

BTW, if you have a Morini air pistol with electronic trigger you can use it for RF training. The electronics using AAA cells for power are more than capable of 5 shots in 4 seconds. This helps a bit for timing your raise and swing, but without recoil recovery in the mix this training is of limited benefit.

As an old RF shooter once told me, the only way to train for RF is to buy several cases of ammunition, and use them!

Mark Briggs wrote:As an old RF shooter once told me, the only way to train for RF is to buy several cases of ammunition, and use them!

And I'm afraid it's the same for Standard Pistol.

Many years ago I did a programme (written for TRS-80) to display a turning target with a large countdown second timer in the corner. It would run Standard, Rapid and Duelling timings.
The reason is that a sense of timing is very important in these events.

Most people shoot the 20 sec series in about 12-14 sec, and the 10 sec in about 6 seconds (usually snatching shots all over the target).

Standard is a rhythm and trigger control match. Lift, stable, squeeze, recoil, recover, stable, squeeze, recoil, recover etc. etc.
Dry fire with a stopwatch in one hand, pistol in the other hand and using imagination will reinforce the timing, the hold and the breathing.

Then off to the range to be knee deep in empty shells shooting timed series.

A Pact or Club timer is useful to record the individual shot times of the series, even better if you can get to a range with electronic targets, you can see each shots time and position.

Years ago, before I bought my Target Timer, which I've set up with red/green lights in lieu of turning targets, I recorded the NRA timed and rapid fire commands, one on each side of a cassette tape, which I then cut to the length of the timed fire recording, so that it only had to be turned over, without rewinding. I used a Sony Walkman, and found this extremely valuable to practice my timing. I fired live ammo, but I suppose this method could also be used while dry firing.

Paul

First shot drills Try this, When the target turns or the light flashes raise the pistol in one smoothe motion . As the pistol approaches the aiming area, begin a steadily increasing pressure on the trigger . Stop in the aiming ares.Your eye should be focussed at the point where the pistol stops and you should focus on the front sight.It should appear nearly perfect in alignment and you do the final perfecting at this time. The pistol should .fire almost immedeatly'. Train to move the pistol to the next target, release the trigger and reapply pressure on the trigger just as though you were going to fire another shot. [Or recover to the same target for timed or rapid fire drills} Good Shooting Bill Horton

Could a metronome be useful for learing the "beat" during dryfire practice?

_Axel_ wrote:Could a metronome be useful for learing the "beat" during dryfire practice?

How could this be used? A certain number of beats for raising the pistol, and another number for each shot? This after deciding how many BPM (beats per minute) you'd want to set it at? The"beat" we're looking for, is a mental counting of the seconds, to use up all the alloted time for maximum accuracy.

Paul "Beat me daddy, eight to the bar" Faini

Sorry, couldn't resist!

There is a nice canadian link for technical pistol training for timed and rapid fire. 2 MP3 files to train the respective rhythm: http://www.targetshooting.ca/
Follow the link "Training information" and then "technical training"