TargetTalk

Any comments would be appreciated. Thanks in advance. I am particularly interested in its ease of use, quality of construction and its dry pac. Cheers!

HLS wrote:Any comments would be appreciated. Thanks in advance. I am particularly interested in its ease of use, quality of construction and its dry pac. Cheers!

I have been using a Hill pump for three years now. It is fitted with the dry pac accessory. It is well made and I have had no problems. Useage is light - I use it to top up after filling from a SCUBA tank. I change the drying beads and the filter once a year. Both tasks are easy to do. Have not yet felt any need to relubricate or do any other maintenance.

I have similar experience with Hill Pump as Fred. Just not as long. Takes about 100 strokes to fill Pardini K2s cylinder from empty (300 bar system) and about 30-40 pumps to top off P44 cylinder with SCUBA at about 1500. Reliable, well made, easy to use. Make sure all connections are snug (as in "sealed") but no need to over tighten. Worth having. Air tank is still easier, but with the pump there is always a fill.

Surely you are mistaken about the number of strokes to "fill" a 300 Bar cylinder with a Hill Pump. A Hill Pump is only rated to a max fill of 230 Bar, see their webpage at:

http://www.airriflepump.com//html/product.asp?id=2214

Most people try to be safer with the Hill Pump and only fill to a max of 200 Bar or 2900 PSI. So from empty to fill a 200 Bar cylinder will take about 100 full strokes.

I use both Gehmann (FX) and Hill pump, but too short a time to speak out on life span, maintenance, wear etc. In general these pumps do a fine job, little difference between performance, limitations and price. I purchased Gehmann with DIN 200 adapter directly mounted into the pump body, Hill with a flexible HP hose between adapter and pumpbody
Some experiences, observations:
1) Hill can handle higher pressures, up to 230 bar
2) Gehmann is easier to operate at pressures above 150 bar due to slimmer construction
3) my weight is about 76 kg, I can manage both pumps to reach 200 bar. It is mainly the technique of pumping. (stand upright, stretch arms, straigthen back, bend knees, let your body vertically drop on the pump)
4) The German translation in the Gehmann manual indicates to pump for 10 minutes and cooldown 5 minutes, the English translation pumping for 5 minutes and cooling 10 minutes. In practice heat generation limits the use, after 40 – 50 strokes take a break.
5) an airrifle cylinder on the Gehmann sticks out a lot, danger of topping over, and possible damaging adapter/ pumpbody. See also point 10. A larger base plate does the trick
6) the up stroke of Gehmann is dampened by something rubbery, Hill by hammering metal against metal.
7) Hill offers an air dryer, to be mounted on the inlet of the pump. The drying medium cannot be regenerated and must be replaced every 2-4 months
8) Anschutz offers a dryer to be mounted in the high pressure line. Medium can be regenerated by heating into an oven. (20 min @ 220 degC)
9) To get an idea of effectivity I filled a plastic bag containing a giftshop quality hygrometer with the pump. In an ambient temperature of 25 C and 65%RH the DryPack dried to 40%RH and Anschutz to 35%RH.
10) Using the Anschutz dryer takes some 20 strokes to fill the extra volume, adds some 4 inches to the length of the HP line
11) Hill offers support, parts, documentation at www.airriflepump.com
12) In my opinion the Anschutz dryer is better, because it is mounted in the spot where water is formed.
13) Looking back my set would be Hill pump, flexible HP line, Anschutz dryer
14) Pumping is hard work.

My sincere thanks for the replies. They have been very helpful. Cheers and best wishes to all.

The K2s is a 250 bar system and I was confused by thinking about the near 300 shots (actually about 270) per total fill. I know the pump passes 200 bar and when the needle hits the pin, I stop. Hill is correct with the 230 bar max. Thanks for picking up on the error. Number of strokes still stands, but I rest after that ;-)

CraigE

I am trying to find out if moisture is a real problem for AP.

When I look at the web site of most manufacturers, I don't see warnings about moisture. Several including the most known (Steyr, Anschutz...) sell the Gehmann pump that has no real system to remove air moisture. Only Walter says that moisture can cause problems (but they don't explain what problems) and they sell the Hill pump.

But when I see the test below:

J.Hoes wrote:I use both Gehmann (FX) and Hill pump.
9) To get an idea of effectivity I filled a plastic bag containing a giftshop quality hygrometer with the pump. In an ambient temperature of 25 C and 65%RH the DryPack dried to 40%RH and Anschutz to 35%RH.

I see that even if the Hill system removes part of moisture, it remain quite a lot enough I think to cause corrosion, assuming that corrosion is the problem.

I have discussed this issue with several big shops selling a lot of AP each year and the answer I got is:
- 3 told me that since they sell pumps (i.e. more that seven years) they didn't had AP damaged by corrosion
- 1 told me that pump should only be used to complete the fill of the AP cylinder (i.e. you fill it with a bottle but, as you know, when the bottle is not fully loaded, you do not get the complete load of the cylinder, for a 200bar bottle, you for instance get 180 or 170bar, The pump is then used to complete the load to 200bar). Ths doesn't convince me because either corrosion is an issue and then adding air from 180 till 200 is enough to introduce moisture, either it is not an issue and then you can fill the cylinder completely with the pump.
- 1 told me that it was an issue and that using a bottle is "far better" than using a pump. When I asked about the Hill pump or the Anschutz system to remove moisture (he sells both !) he told me that it is better but not as good as the bottle. He also couldn't tell me if he really had returned AP damaged by moisture.

My own experience is that I have been using a bottle for a while (about 6 years), then when I was fed up of the not complete load (I had a 5 liter bottle, 10 and bigger bottle are better but heavy and difficult to carry) and had an opportunity to buy a Gehmann pump for a discount price (one year ago) I moved to the pump.

I must say that from an usage point of view, it is very convenient and not har to use at all, I have no difficulty at all to fill my cylinders (it takes about 1 minute when a cylinder is at 100bar). For information, I am doing several sport so I am in good condition but I am not a huge guy at all (1.80m, 75kg). I do not think that pumping would be an issue for anybody except may be old people or small woman.

So, I am looking for your experience (your own and what you heard):
- do you know people who had AP damaged due to moisture ?
- how do you load your cylinder: bottle or pump or a compressor ?

P.S. at the club where I am shooting, all opther people use a bottle because they think that using a pump is too hard !

I have the Gehmann FX and have been using it for about 2.5 years. I read all I could find on the subject when I purchased the pump. The condensing system in the Ghemann pump was noted as very effective.

I wasn't worried about moisture content until a couple weeks ago. If you fill more than one AP cylinder with the FX you will notice increased moisture vented with the relief valve. Started reading again and found out about grease and not using the pumps when warmed up.

The new air rifle manual specifically says not to use a hand pump. I prefer the hand pump for size, portability and the ability to completely charge the cylinder. I would also like to know if there are any better drying systems available for the pumps.

Good Shooting,
Phil

Dragon 2 wrote:The new air rifle manual specifically says not to use a hand pump. l

What is the brand of those air rifles ??

Jipe,
I double checked what I wrote and found out a missquoted the manual. The FWB manual "doesn't recommend" the use of hand pumps for the 700 line.

I'm thinking that may be a result of increased moisture.

Good Shooting,
Phil

Any comments would be appreciated. Thanks in advance. I am particularly interested in its ease of use, quality of construction and its dry pac. Cheers!

Hello HLS,
I just started shooting air pistol and bought a Hill pump with the dryer. My first two impressions were:
1. It doesn't take that long to pump up a cylinder.
2. Wow, it takes a lot of force to pump up to 230 BAR!

All in all, it's a pretty clever gadget. If I had my choice, I would elect to pump with more (or longer) strokes and less maximum force (this way I could get my kids to do the work), but it works quite well as is.

My only complaint it the attachment of the dryer, as the brass fitting screws into a plastic piece on the pump body. It was a pain to get the fitting screwed on straight and not cross threaded. I was afraid to screw it in too far, so the dryer can rotate fairly easily. Anyone have any comments or recommendations for this situation?

Bottom line is, it get's the job done fine and I'd buy another.

Steve.

P.S. I can't comment on how well the dryer works, as I have no way of measuring the resultant moisture content, but it looks nice and I haven't seen any water draining from the pressure release valve.

My sincere thanks go to all who have replied to my original post. Cheers and best wishes.

Two more remarks:
- with my Gehmann pump that has no dryer, I also never had water coming out the pump (it also has a screw to drain water out)
- in the user manual of Steyr LP10, there are three means mentionned to fill the air cylinder: compressor, big bottle and hand pump. No prefered method, no warning about moisture (also not in the warranty limitations, moisture is not a reason for warranty void).

I had another thinking: for pistol and rifle using a piston and a lever to pre-compress the air before each shot like the famous Feinwerkbau 65, the air is also taken out of the atmosphere without any moisture removal system and this doesn't cause any corrosion (barrel...) and/or damage.