Page 1 of 2
Shooting Glasses, advantages, disadvantages, you say...
Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 5:24 am
by Isaac
Ok, I need some help.
I plan to get a pair of shooting glasses, and I need a MAJOR help.
First off, which brand is the most reliable, and most advanced. Second, how does the shooting glasses LENS help you? Front sight focus? Third, IRIS'S whats the use? Forth, SIDE blocks, does it help?
Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 6:25 am
by RogerB
read the article on glasses here, it should set you straight
http://www.pilkguns.com/hhg.shtml
Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 8:05 am
by JulianY
Iris are controversial.
The theory is that they can be used to increase the eyes depth of field and thus enable the shooter to see the rear sight clearly as well as the fore sight. But bad habits come in because the target becomes clearer and draws the attention.
There is a situation when they can be useful; The eye has its own iris (the pupil) that opens and closed depending on the light available thus affecting the depth of field naturally. So on dimly lit club ranges an iris can help, but it’s two steps forward, one step back. Placing the iris on the lens further reduces the light coming to the eye!
An ISSF specification range must have 300 lumens of light on the “desk” of the firing point. Thats quite a lot and since the light is coming from above it should be greater that 300 lumens on the sights. This should be adequate to not need and iris.
It is my understanding that the current advice given to top UK shooters is not to use them ( PaulT feel free to correct me hear) . For my self I have one, and it stays in my box, if I am at a club range and having trouble then it’s available to try.
I do know one national level shooter that has his own ISSF approved light meter and checks the light levels before the match starts and will lodge a complaint at that point for this very reason.
Other that that get the best quality lenses you can afford. Generalizing but a second lens is better optically that a lens and correction filter. - less air,glass,air,glass....
Julian
Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 9:15 am
by cdf
Most clubs know a tame optician , and may give you a chance to see a few different frames . Dont go to one of the eyeglass places in the mall . The fella our club sees lets you bring a cleared , cased AP to the consultation . Around our club we have Knoblocs , Champions , and a couple of pairs of Vargas . The Champions being the most elaborate , and having the most adjustments . I got some hand me down Knoblocs , sold on behalf of a shooter who had retired from the sport . They have been great for me . The Vargas are not as elaborate , one fella had his iris fall apart . As always YMMV .
Chris
Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 10:39 am
by F. Paul in Denver
I agree with Julian. While it sounds illogical, seeing too much can really be detrimental to your performance. The iris has the effect of increasing the depth of field creating a much clearer sharper bull. If you have not yet mastered ignoring the bull while it's fuzzy (without the iris) you are likely to have even greater difficulty in doing so when the bull is clear.
The relationship of the front sight to the rear sight is really all you need to concentrate on. Anything more is likely to be hurt your performance.
I have Champions and am very satisifed with them. However, the Vargas, Knoblochs I have seen are all high quality. I went with the Champions because of the greater degree of adjustments - I'm a cross dominant shooter and needed frames that would let me accomodate the left eye/right hand combo.
My shooting eye lens is set so that I can see the front sight as clearly as humanly possible. My non shooting eye lens is a bifocal - the lower half for up close reading/scoring targets while the upper half is for long distance. So, between the two lenses, I can see clearly at all distances.
My optometrist also let me bring in my AP and take aim against a blank wall so he could measure the precise distance from the shooting eye to the front sight post. With this measurement, he made me an outstanding lens.
One valid criticism of most specialized shooting frames it that they tend to use smaller lenses. This results in less eye coverage and therefore a decrease in eye safety.
F. Paul in Denver
"The Eyes Have It"
Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 11:59 pm
by jamdon
Here is a link to further discussion on shooting glasses :
http://nygordprecision.com/
Hope you can use something from this. It sure did for me when I started shooting a few years back.
I have owned Champions, now Knobloc & Varga shooting glasses. Champions are the most expensive and also the most adjustable. I sold my Champions and bought a Knobloc & a Varga because I could now buy 2 for the price of one. I use one for pistol (Varga) and one for rifle (Knobloc). They all work with the correct lens & adjustment. I found that the Champions worked great but was more than I pesonally needed.
All the best in your decision.
ps. the Varga is available from our host. It is a pleasure doing business with them. It feels like doing business with family.
-donovan
Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 11:57 am
by GaryN
For me, it lets me focus on the front sight. With my regular glasses, I can't get a decent focus on the front sight. Thats what happens when you get old.
My eye doc let me bring my AP into her office and we did the measuring, to get the best compromise clear front sight and still be able to see the target. And guess what...Warren was right in the diopter offset.
Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 10:31 pm
by tleddy
If you have 20/20 vision at a distance and want to play with some inexpensive lenses, just get a set of drugstore "El Cheapo" reading glasses in a +1.00 diopter. You might be startled at what it does to the image of the front sight.
If you wear glasses or contacts for distance vision, just put the El Cheapos over you glasses - same effect.
Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 4:17 am
by JulianY
tleddy wrote:If you have 20/20 vision at a distance and want to play with some inexpensive lenses, just get a set of drugstore "El Cheapo" reading glasses in a +1.00 diopter. You might be startled at what it does to the image of the front sight.
If you wear glasses or contacts for distance vision, just put the El Cheapos over you glasses - same effect.
I tried this, But the tolerance of the El Chepo is often great more that +- .25 so you never really know what you have got.
secondly the general recommendation is between +.25 and +.75 on you normal prescription with +.50 suiting most shooters . So far I have never found an el cheepo less than +1.0
Your milage may differ as they say, but I would be concerned with eye strain at this level
Just my $0.02
JY
Shooting glasses - iris
Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 10:46 am
by Richard Newman
Another aspect to using an iris is if you wear corrective lenses - particualrly the variable correction lenses that have largely replaced bifocals. Since with these glasses the exact relationship of the eye and lens is critical, an iris mounted so that it always has the opening over the same spot on the lens can help assure that you always look through the same part of the lens, and therefore use the same correction when looking at the sights. If due to glasses fit or changes in head position you look through a different part of the variable lens for different shots, believe me, it doesn't help. As always its a cut and try situation to get the best use of the glasses and iris.
Richard Newman
Re: Shooting glasses - iris
Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 12:08 pm
by Fred Mannis
Richard Newman wrote:Another aspect to using an iris is if you wear corrective lenses - particualrly the variable correction lenses that have largely replaced bifocals. Since with these glasses the exact relationship of the eye and lens is critical, an iris mounted so that it always has the opening over the same spot on the lens can help assure that you always look through the same part of the lens, and therefore use the same correction when looking at the sights. If due to glasses fit or changes in head position you look through a different part of the variable lens for different shots, believe me, it doesn't help. As always its a cut and try situation to get the best use of the glasses and iris.
Richard Newman
That's a neat idea. What make iris do you use? I assume you fasten it to your everyday glasses, so how do you ensure that the iris is always located in the same spot?
Imprecise diopter and techie talk
Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 4:23 pm
by Guest
I tried this, But the tolerance of the El Chepo is often great more that +- .25 so you never really know what you have got.
secondly the general recommendation is between +.25 and +.75 on you normal prescription with +.50 suiting most shooters . So far I have never found an el cheepo less than +1.0
Your milage may differ as they say, but I would be concerned with eye strain at this level
Just my $0.02
JY[/quote]
JY has a good point regarding quality control. On the techie stuff, by definition a +1.0 diopter lens has a one meter focal length - that is real close to the distance from the eye to the front sight of a target gun held in one hand. Based on that, a +0.75 or + 1.0 diopter lens will do most of the work for you. Depending on the quality of your focusing (minimal presbyopia) a +0.50 will help a bit; +0.25 is so mild in power as not to be helpful.
Any one on the list ever hear of the ClearSight?
Clearsight...
Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 12:00 am
by JoeG
I still have a Clearsight optical aid. A little explanation for those not familiar with the device. The Clearsight was designed to be used with standard eyeglasses. There was a spring loaded action that would clamp the unit to the side arm of your eyeglass frame. Attached to this there was a length of thin metal frame which held a lens of approxmately 3/4 inch in diameter. It came with two or three different diopter strength lens so you could choose the one that worked best. The goal was to give the shooter a clearer sight picture. The lens holder arm of the unit was on a spring loaded pivot so that the lens could be easily swung out of the way when desired. The Clearsight sold for around $40-$50 but disappeared from the market several years ago. I currently use Knobloc shooting glasses for 10 meter AP shooting but keep my Clearsight in my gun case as a back-up alternative. An interesting and well made contraption.
Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 6:16 am
by derekm
Re. the El Cheapo glasses and lenses, if you send the El Cheapo lens to one of the mail order companies that make economical prescription glasses, they will make you a lens of the diopter you require, to fit the Cheapo frame. Or, simply get a complete pair from same source, same diopter both eyes and white out the non shooting lens. No doubt not a perfect solution, but better than having a crystal clear view of the target and does not require a second mortgage.
I've been shot down on these suggestions before, but it is an unfortunate fact that we cannot all afford $100s for shooting glasses and associated accessories. The primary expense is a half-way decent gun.
Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 6:29 pm
by Spencer
two points to add to Derekm's post
- not everybody has/needs the same script for both eyes.
- no need to 'white out' (or whatever method you use) the entire non-shooting eye lens. There are advantages to having the same light levels to each eye. Frosted tape on that lens to cover the target and sights area works and still lets you have stereo view of things like loading magazines, etc.
Spencer
Re: Clearsight...
Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:40 am
by tleddy
JoeG wrote:I still have a Clearsight optical aid. A little explanation for those not familiar with the device. The Clearsight was designed to be used with standard eyeglasses. There was a spring loaded action that would clamp the unit to the side arm of your eyeglass frame. Attached to this there was a length of thin metal frame which held a lens of approxmately 3/4 inch in diameter. It came with two or three different diopter strength lens so you could choose the one that worked best. The goal was to give the shooter a clearer sight picture. The lens holder arm of the unit was on a spring loaded pivot so that the lens could be easily swung out of the way when desired. The Clearsight sold for around $40-$50 but disappeared from the market several years ago. I currently use Knobloc shooting glasses for 10 meter AP shooting but keep my Clearsight in my gun case as a back-up alternative. An interesting and well made contraption.
ClearsighT
Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:48 am
by tleddy
JoeG-
Thanks for the kind words. I designed the ClearsighT and sold them for over 20 years. Sadly, the loupe maker disappeared and so the ClearsighT. I still get one or two inquiries per month via email. It was a nice alternative to the $100s for special shooting glasses. Tillman
Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 3:34 am
by derekm
"- not everybody has/needs the same script for both eyes.
- no need to 'white out' (or whatever method you use) the entire non-shooting eye lens. There are advantages to having the same light levels to each eye. Frosted tape on that lens to cover the target and sights area works and still lets you have stereo view of things like loading magazines, etc. "
My suggestion was a generalisation, food for thought, which was not intended to be minutely precise. If you wish to keep both eyes open, order the required prescription for each eye. In UK and no doubt the States, the cost is the same. In my limited experience however, many (most?) users of shooting glasses do use a blinder on the non-dominant eye.
My own modified El Cheapo glasses simply have a coat of white paint on the outside of the non dominant lens. This allows approximately the same light levels in both eyes, at least to the point where I do not feel "lopsided".
I have tried leaving the lower strip (as with a bifocal) of the otherwise white lens uncovered, for loading etc. as you suggest, but for me at least, this did constitute a distraction whilst "on target". This may of course not be the case for everyone.
The whole point is, that using this source of optical aid, one can experiment with various factors without breaking the bank.
Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 5:27 am
by JulianY
I just cant help think of the phrase "watch the sights" - you have to be able to see them.
How about this for an idea;
Plan on spending 20% of the price of you paid you gun .
JY
Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 11:03 pm
by Mark Briggs
Two important points to be made here...
1) if you are using regular glasses and wish to 'white out' the lens of the non-shooting eye, please be aware this "white out' consitutes a blinder or occluding device. ISSF rules govern the width of the blinder to 40mm if I recall correctly. Make sure that you don't exceed this limit or you'll fail equipment check.
2) light intensity balance ... some folks, yours truly included, are more prone to encountering eyestrain if the intensity of light being provided to one eye is greater than that being provided to the other eye. When we're using glasses with a blinder it is important to try to keep the light intensity reaching each eye in balance with the other. This means that if you shoot with an iris you'll be losing some light because the iris frame itself blocks some light from the shooting eye. To match this on the non-shooting eye you'll likely want your blinder to be off-white or perhaps grey. If you shoot with your iris closed down to a tiny hole you'll likely want to use a dark gray or black blinder. I often find that by flipping the blinder up slightly I can fine-tune the amount of light reaching my non-shooting eye and thus avoid eye fatigue.
Oh, a third point that just popped into my head... Good shooting glasses aren't that expensive when you come to think of it. Keep your eyes peeled for a used pair. I've been lucky and have picked up a couple of pair this way for minimal investment. Also, I picked up a Varga frame from our local dealer who had a spare one and didn't know what to do with it so he sold it to me at a bargain. Somehow or other I've managed to acquire 4 different sets of pistol glasses (2 Knobloch, 2 Varga) and a set of rifle glasses. No wonder I have no space in my gun room! ;-)