TargetTalk

Hi All,

I know this is probably a well worn overdone subject, but I am new to 10m Air Pistol and am choosing between the following pistols to buy. I would appreciate any feedback on which to get. I know it is all a personal preference, but I don't have the opportunity to try them all before making up my mind:

Steyr LP10
Morini CM162E1
SAM K15
FWB P44
Match Guns MG1E

Thanks,
Alexis

Alexis wrote:I know it is all a personal preference, but I don't have the opportunity to try them all before making up my mind:

You have answered your own question. Nobody can tell you which of these top class guns is going to suit you the best.

Even if you can't try them all, try as many as possible and choose from those.

Maybe I need to slightly rephrase the question. Is there any reason I should pick one of these pistols once I find the one that feels best?

Steyr LP10
Morini CM162E1
SAM K15
FWB P44
Match Guns MG1E

Are there any significant flaws or technical issues that would tend to exclude one of them.

Thanks,
Alexis

Alexis wrote:Is there any reason I should pick one of these pistols once I find the one that feels best?

So the real question is, "is there any reason I shouldn't pick one of these pistols.....".

I have no experience of the P44 or the MG1E but the others shouldn't give any problems (unless you are very unlucky).

You are so right...

So the real question is, "is there any reason I shouldn't pick one of these pistols.....".

That'll teach me to write late on sunday night...

Thanks for our comments

Hi,

Buy a pistol second hand and see for yourself. You can sell it later.
One week tryout is a too short period. Maybe your shooting friends can try your gun at the same time. It is better to bye a top level air pistol in used condition than any other pistol. An air gun can last many years. Be aware though that the grip is right, a new grip is costly.

Now, to the pistols:
LP10, if you have short fingers there can be a problem but it is one of the best!
Morini 162EI, top trigger! Grip is bulkier. MI with mechanical trigger has smaller more adjustable grip. Note that a pistol with changeable cylinders is worth a lot more. Old 15 volt system can be a problem with battery but the electronic trigger is never a problem.
P44, you can hardly see any used gun, I would advise you to avoid other Feinwerkbau if you are to sell the gun later.
Other top models, remember that it is you who is the seller after a year, do not bye because of low price alone.
Remember that a brand new LP10 will loose about 20% of its value first year (if you do not modify the grip) LP10 or 162EI depends also upon how the possibility for service locks where you live.
With time, you will come to know other pistols and feel how it is compared to your own gun and have something to relate to.

Kent

The LP10 and the P44 are both good guns, I have just gone from an LP10 to a P44 and loving it so far. It's all about the feel and the trigger.

I have big hands with short fingers and the LP10 wasn't a problem just had to go back to the original non adjustable (a million ways from Sunday Trigger shoe). have since tried the latest trigger shoe and it now works for me with short fingers too.

wouldn't suggest the morrini. don't kind of like it's protruding pistol grip.

the electronic trigger also has its pros and cons. You have to consider the possibility of the battery running flat during a competition, rendering your pistol useless.

Btw, i am also interested in picking up a new pistol. What do you guys think of anschutz LP@?

The major difference among these pistols is the Electronic Trigger vs. Mechanical Trigger issue.

This is a fundamental difference and should be considered the dominant selection criteria at the outset.

1. There is a very different "Feel" that relates to your personal preference;
2. The force profile through release with the electric is constant; with the mechanical you get a sudden force drop-off at the moment of release followed by the wall at the trigger stop

The trigger issue is "Kind Of Important" if you seek excellence in the sport.

Steve Swartz

Steve Swartz wrote:
The trigger issue is "Kind Of Important" if you seek excellence in the sport.

Steve Swartz

Steve not quite sure what you mean by the above comment, I don't think you mean that a gun with an electronic trigger is better than a gun with a mechanical, but that sorta sounds like what you are saying.

The LP 1, LP10 and Morini have all shot top scores in the hands of those that are capable to achieve them. So excellence doesn't depend on an electronic trigger.

As for the other poster I really wouldn't worry about you batteries dying, you throw a pack of AAA's in your shooting kit not a big deal. It's know different than if a spring broke in your mechanical trigger (actually it because you would probably be finished for the day).

Well I deserve it I guess but people sure seem "spring loaded" on many of my comments . . . reading what I wrote I'm pretty sure I said

1) The two types of triggers are very different
2) Your performance vis the trigger is very important

therefore Choose Wisely

Pretty sure I didn't state that Brand X was "better" than Brand Y . . . Been There, Done That, See Previous Threads.

(although my very accurate, factual description of the differences might lead one to believe that there was an inherent advantage to the electronic. While the constant force profile characteristic could quite reasonably be assumed to be an inherent advantage, any individual may or may not be comfortable with the "feel" therefore negating presumed inherent advantage. Sigh. As with most stuff on these kinds of forums, Your Mileage May Vary.)

I'm planning to be at the CAGP in Februrary if you want to knock this about over a Molson or six . . . maybe we can settle this once and for all on a frozen lake with funny shaped rocks with handles on them and a broom!

Steve "Unrepentant, Unreformed Positivist" Swartz

I can understand settling disputes by throwing rocks at each other.....but what use are the brooms? Do you try to swat the block aside? Throw it at your opponent? Raise it as a sign of victory?

Steve Swartz wrote:Well I deserve it I guess but people sure seem "spring loaded" on many of my comments . . . reading what I wrote I'm pretty sure I said

1) The two types of triggers are very different
2) Your performance vis the trigger is very important

therefore Choose Wisely

Pretty sure I didn't state that Brand X was "better" than Brand Y . . . Been There, Done That, See Previous Threads.

(although my very accurate, factual description of the differences might lead one to believe that there was an inherent advantage to the electronic. While the constant force profile characteristic could quite reasonably be assumed to be an inherent advantage, any individual may or may not be comfortable with the "feel" therefore negating presumed inherent advantage. Sigh. As with most stuff on these kinds of forums, Your Mileage May Vary.)

I'm planning to be at the CAGP in Februrary if you want to knock this about over a Molson or six . . . maybe we can settle this once and for all on a frozen lake with funny shaped rocks with handles on them and a broom!

Steve "Unrepentant, Unreformed Positivist" Swartz

Sounds good to me, hopefully there will be a good turn out this year.

I wasn't sure what you were getting at so I thought that I would ask for a little clarification (no stones being thrown on my part). I think the confusion was on my part as your post followed the Morini post.

After re reading it on it's own I agree totally agree that trigger function is probably one of the most important considerations when selecting a pistol. That being said most of the top air pistol have (or can be adjusted to have) a decent trigger which meets one's "personal preference". Same as grip, which can be adjusted to meets ones "personal preference". These are both things that we all tell new people to base their decision on but no one is going to let someone adjust triggers or seriously adjust/fit grips, so really they are just basing their decsion on how something comes adjusted from the factory.

I think a lot depends if one just wants to shoot it out of the box or adjust it to make it their own. The top air pistols require for the most part just little refinements to make it a perfect pistol for the individual shooter.

Just as important criteria when selecting a pistol is manufacutres support, dealers support and friends and fellow shooters support ie can I get parts, does someone locally have parts and can my shooting collegues assist me in fixing or adjusting. Another important thing is do you like it, if you don't like the pistol, for whatever reason (colour, looks, weight, smell), your never going to be happy with it and it is doubt full that you will shoot as well with that pistol as with one that you like.

So maybe its like computers and other things, buy as much pistol as you can afford and something that you like (for whatever reason), knowing that with time you will most likely adjust the trigger, carve the grip, get different grips and change the weight/balance. If you stick to any of the top guns I doubt you can go radically wrong.


Sweeeep, sweeep, sweeep, hurry hard, hurry hard! Does anyone make electronic rocks or brooms?

Speaking of rocks, what every shooter needs is a good set of shooting stones from Centra, stones are mans best friends and they can pass their vibrations to your oragnism 8^)

To all of non-Canadian descent (ascent?) the rocks are not "thrown" at each other per se; rather are slid . . .

Mix

1 frozen lake
2 stones
Assortmenet of brooms
Spray paint
Be-e-e-e-er
Several snowmobiles (ahh, the memories of recovering a Bombardier from the frozen marsh!)
Lots of rowdy friends

Shake together; chill well; Voila!

A new olympic sport . . . ?

Steve Swartz

Alexisis you are standing where I stood a year or so ago . I did my home work , deciced thet the Morini and Styer family were the front runners . I couldn't make up my mind and bought both a Morini Short ( electronic of course ) , and a Styer LP10 . I still cant make up my mind , they are both top notch . You can't go wrong with either one , I must confess I shoot the LP10 more often . The Morini has the better trigger of the two , the Styer has more dampening of firing impulse . The Matchguns and the SAM are both Morini designs , I dont know about service and support for these , the 162e is well supported in North America , as is the Styer , I disrecall where you are from .

The FWB 44 is very impressive looking , check out Kent's posts on the subject . I'm sure it is a fine pistol , and would very much like to try one out sometime . Richard H. has had a chance to try one in Germany and was very impressed .

The Styer LP1 is a surperb pistol with a trigger that some say is superior to the LP10 , Theis pistol has a long and distinguished track record , and I would by a good used one in either CO2 or air in a heartbeat . CO2 can be readily converted to air , with a kit available from Styer .

YMMV,

Let us know what you choose ,

Chris

cdf wrote:The Morini has the better trigger of the two , the Styer has more dampening of firing impulse . The Matchguns and the SAM are both Morini designs , I dont know about service and support for these , the 162e is well supported in North America , as is the Styer , I disrecall where you are from .

I prefere you don't mix SAM and Match Guns with Morini design. They are not the same and have nothing to do with the Morini CM 162EI.
Thanks

Francesco wrote:

cdf wrote:The Morini has the better trigger of the two , the Styer has more dampening of firing impulse . The Matchguns and the SAM are both Morini designs , I dont know about service and support for these , the 162e is well supported in North America , as is the Styer , I disrecall where you are from .

I prefere you don't mix SAM and Match Guns with Morini design. They are not the same and have nothing to do with the Morini CM 162EI.
Thanks

Is this not true?

"Morini is a man that gave to target shooting many new innovations such as: the first precompressed airgun, customized anatomical grips, and the electronic trigger.
After many years of working with the company Morini competition arms, and SAM in Lugano, Switzerland, Cesare Morini came back to Italy to start a new company named MATCHGUNS. " ( Quote taken from the Matchguns web site)

Was Cesare Morini not involved with the design of the 162 Air Pistol? This is not for arguements sake I really would like to know.

A note to Steve Swartz:

Your description of the sport is interesting. Since the game originated on the lochs of Scottland I think the progenitors of the game would be rolling in their graves to hear that such a lowland drink as beer would be one of the main ingredients for a good game. In the interest of historical accuracy I think your description needs to include two flavours, the "historically correct" version, and the "how it's done now" version.

For the "historically correct" version one needs to substitute a few drams of well-aged Scotch in place of the beer, and a few burly lads wearing kilts fashioned from the tartan of a warring clan in place of lots of rowdy friends.

As for the "how it's done now" version, you've pretty much hit the nail on the head. Seems to me the only thing you've forgotten to add was the various bits of frozen anatomy which normally accompany such contests of skill and derring-do! ;-)

On a more serious note, I think Francesco's point was one based on trademarks rather than people's names. The current company bearing the Morini name, Morini Competition Arms, has nothing to do with SAM or Matchguns. Whether or not Cesare Morini himself was involved with SAM and Matchguns is a different question, and it seems Richard has found the answer to this question in his quote from the Matchguns website.

Richard H wrote: Is this not true?

"Morini is a man that gave to target shooting many new innovations such as: the first precompressed airgun, customized anatomical grips, and the electronic trigger. " ( Quote taken from the Matchguns web site)

It's my impression that Hammerli came out with the first modern precompressed air target pistol. At least the Hammerlis got to the USA first. And, by the way, some of the very earliest airguns ever made used a precompressed air power source.

FredB