TargetTalk

I was looking at the Karl Nill website, and noticed that they sell some grips with a fixed palm shelf. Apparently, you can trace an outline of your hand on a sheet of paper and send it in to get one of these. While some were for older models (FWB 65) they also had this option for some current pistols (Steyr LP10). The prices were slightly higher than for their adjustable models. Would elite level shooters ever buy one of these?

What is the advantage of the adjustable palm shelf? Other than the fact that the grip maker might not have gotten it quite right, I have also heard from some people that your hand can swell up depending on nervousness, climate, etc. Is this true? Would anyone adjust the palm shelf during a match?

I was also wondering if any particular brands had a problem with the palm shelf working loose over time.

Thanks.

James Way wrote:Would elite level shooters ever buy one of these?

No idea but I would not

James Way wrote:What is the advantage of the adjustable palm shelf? Other than the fact that the grip maker might not have gotten it quite right

The position of the palm shelf changes the natural position of the foresight. to much suport and the sight comes up, to little and it goes down. Seems to me kind of hard to judge from just a drawing of hand but then i know nothing about designing grips

James Way wrote:I have also heard from some people that your hand can swell up depending on nervousness, climate, etc. Is this true?

Yes - and so can your feet !

James Way wrote:Would anyone adjust the palm shelf during a match?

Yifu Wang disassembeled and re assembled his grip during a match becaus is did not fit right see http://www.pilkguns.com/intyw.htm


Best Wishes

SD

sadly the video files are gone.

would have liked to take a look though.

You can never get a grip exactly right with the hand drawing method. I have 3 grips made that way and the palm shelf is always wrong (mine have to be fixed). The palm shelf should be quite a snug fit to provide the best support when shooting and that can only really be done through trial and error.

The hand does (or can) swell during the day and it will vary with hydration state and temperature. That said I've never know anyone to adjust their's for that reason in a match etc.

Rob.

James,

Arnie Vitarbo, a long-time grip maker and still holder of some U.S. pistol records, strongly prefers the fixed palm shelf and recommends it to grip buyers. And the great Don Nygord told me that, once he got the shelf of an adjustable grip in the right position for his hand, he would putty it in place, making it fixed. So some top level shooters indeed prefer the fixed shelf.

However, I am not a top level shooter, and I suspect you are not either? The relevant difference here is that I (and you?) am not yet sure exactly how I want my grips to fit, unlike Mssrs. Vitarbo and Nygord. So I prefer adjustable grips.

As far as the normal day-to-day variations in hand size go, I have found that it is possible to find a palm shelf position that feels OK under most circumstances. Of course, this would not include use after a bee sting on the palm of the shooting hand ;-)

HTH,
FredB

RobStubbs wrote:You can never get a grip exactly right with the hand drawing method. I have 3 grips made that way and the palm shelf is always wrong (mine have to be fixed). The palm shelf should be quite a snug fit to provide the best support when shooting and that can only really be done through trial and error.

The hand does (or can) swell during the day and it will vary with hydration state and temperature. That said I've never know anyone to adjust their's for that reason in a match etc.

Rob.

I've adjusted mine prior to a match, I can't remember if I have during a match but if it wasn't right I would have no problem making an adjustment.

I really can't see much advantage in having a fixed palm self and I don't see an disadvantages to having an adjustable one.

Rob just a question whya do you need a fixed palm shelf?

Richard H wrote: Rob just a question whya do you need a fixed palm shelf?

My 3 grips I mentioned were custom made by rink and for that he doesn't offer the option of adjustable palm shelf - I assume it makes it too awkward to make them (?) I had another couple made in Switzerland or ordinary grips heavily customised. The grip maker there also immobilised the palm shelfs.

Rob.

Richard,
The only time that I would adjust the position of the palm shelf is on an extremely hot day, if the feel of my hand in the grip seemed to be too tight. The adjustment would only be minimal just to ease some of the pressure due to a swollen hand etc.
As Rob has mentioned, the availability of a small adjustment is helpful when trying to find the most comfortable and supportive position for the grip. Something that is not so easily available with a fixed palm shelf.
As always with pistol shooting, it is all down tom personal preference.

Maintaining a uniform grip is essential to good grouping. The more contact area between hand and gun - the easier it is to develop that tactile memory necessary to achieve a uniform grip.

When correctly used, a palm shelf encourages the shooter to position his hand on the grip as consistently as possible. Some of us can do this without a shelf - some of us have more difficulty.


I'm not saying you cant shoot well unless you have a palm shelf. I am saying that the theory behind them seems to be that the extra surface contact it provides between hand and gun helps one achieve a more consistent grip.

The last "guest" posting here really hit the nail on the head. Consistancy of grip pressure is key to consistancy of grouping. Since we're all different, we'll all have different grip requirements. As an example, I happen to be one of those people whose hands shrink like crazy when cold and expand like balloons when hot. Heck, the band on my wristwatch even has to be adjusted during the day to adjust to the changing size of my wrist! This being the case, an adjustable palmshelf is of vital importance to me. If your hand doesn't change size very much across temperature extremes then you may not need an adjustable one. It really is that simple...

For me the adjustable shelf is really important.

My Freepistol is not adjustable, and it's a real pain sometimes when my hand shrinks.