TargetTalk

OK, so I'm not quite a rookie - I have a lot of experience with handguns. But I'm interested in taking my shooting to the next level. I'm looking for a centerfire auto pistol in 9mm (or maybe .40 or .38super) with superior accuracy and handling, a crisp SA trigger, and solid build quality... but nothing too over-the-top in terms of compensators and big screen sights.

Here are some of the models that have caught my eye:
- Sig P226 X-Five
- CZ75 Competiton (or maybe the TacSport, or even the standard SA model w/ a few mods)
- Browning Hi-Power (w/ a few mods)
- Springfield 1911 Custom Loaded 9mm target

Are there any obvious options that I'm missing in terms of hot out-of-the-box target pistols, or maybe a good pistol that can be turned into a great shooter with a few mods?

Thanks,

What game are you playing? Your name says "bullseye," but based on the options you provide, it looks like you're interested in IPSC. If you're interested in IPSC, you might have better luck asking at:
http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?act=idx

If you're interested in Bullseye, you might want to ask at:
http://www.lava.net/~perrone/bullseye/

FWIW, for IPSC/USPSA, it will depend on what division you want to shoot. Assuming you want to shoot Limited division (no comp, no optics, but other mods allowed), I'd go with the CZ-75 Tactical Sport. You can get basepads to allow it to hold 20 rounds, so it's not at a round count disadvantage. The triggers out of the box are remarkable...right around 2-2.5 lbs, and they can lighten up after use to around 1.75-2lbs. The build quality is pretty good and the price is unbeatable for what you get. The only thing better regardless of price (IMHO) would be a tricked out STI Edge, which will run you about $800 more without mags than the CZ with three mags (about $900 on www.gunbroker.com).
If you want to play in Production division (no comp, no optics, 10 round limit, first round must be double-action, virtually no mods), I'd go with a Glock 34 or 35 (about $500) or a CZ-75 SP-01 (about $550).

For bullseye, I wouldn't go for any of the guns you listed. Maybe a Springfield 1911 Custom Loaded in .45acp, since it would allow you to shoot the Centerfire Match and the .45 Match.

The Sig X-Five is a gun that is designed for IPSC and is phenomenally accurate, but pretty pricey. Other guns will do the job and will be cheaper. Plus, more gunsmiths will be more familiar with the 1911 design...or even the CZ design.
The Browning Hi-Power hasn't really been at the forefront of any competition discipline that I can think of.

Dr.Bullseye wrote:OK, so I'm not quite a rookie - I have a lot of experience with handguns. But I'm interested in taking my shooting to the next level. I'm looking for a centerfire auto pistol in 9mm (or maybe .40 or .38super) with superior accuracy and handling, a crisp SA trigger, and solid build quality... but nothing too over-the-top in terms of compensators and big screen sights.

Here are some of the models that have caught my eye:
- Sig P226 X-Five
- CZ75 Competiton (or maybe the TacSport, or even the standard SA model w/ a few mods)
- Browning Hi-Power (w/ a few mods)
- Springfield 1911 Custom Loaded 9mm target

Are there any obvious options that I'm missing in terms of hot out-of-the-box target pistols, or maybe a good pistol that can be turned into a great shooter with a few mods?

Thanks,

if "the next level" is international style competition, get an LP-10 air pistol from http://www.pilkguns.com and a Pardini SP .22 pistol and a Morini CM84e and a .32 pardini HP. more or less in that order.

what part of the country are you in?

if your interest is NRA bullseye, get the Pardini SP then a 1911, if it is IPSC, hmmmmm I can't quite help you....

there are 100 different types of shooting competition, this forum is strictly international/olympic

have fun

Poole
http://arizona.rifleshooting.com/

(if you want to try high power rifle see my website)

I haven't done any competions yet, and I'm not even sure which type I'm most interested in (I'll have to do a little more research about the different types). So for the time being, "the next level" for me is just better accuracy (and maybe quicker target reacquisition after a shot) from the 10 - 25 yard range...
So what I'd really like is something that handles great and is very accurate from this range. (I'm not interested in any competition that requires DA triggers, so that's not a consideration).

So for this type of play, are the Sig, CZ, and a custom 1911 (like an STI, Springfield, Kimber, etc.) all pretty much equally a good choice?

I'd like to stay within the Production or Limited classes, except that some of the models I like do have compensators (namely the CZ Comp). Being that compensators are not allowed in Production and Limited classes, do they really provide a big handling advantage?

As Bill noted, this forum is for ISSF type shooting (with infrequent crossover to NRA Conventional Pistol shooting).

ISSF rules on centerfire handguns limit calibers to .32 to .38, no compensators are allowed. There are trigger pull, overall size, and grip limitations also. The event is fired at 25 meters or 25 yards on reduced targets. So for ISSF shooting, the pistols you mentioned are simply not suitable in .45ACP.

before you spend money, GO VISIT each of several different competitions, see if any of them appeal to you, basically there are two very different worlds, PRECISION which includes NRA Bullseye and ISSF/Olympic and ACTION which is IPSC, IDPA, Cowboy etc. in precision, score is based on precise you hit, in action its how fast you hit. The mental state of mind for each of these two major divisions is significantly different, it is mirrored in participants' personalities, imaginations, equipment, clothing etc.

you may find you want to get serious in this or that (or both) and then ask THEM what equipment to buy, you may find you don't like competition at all, everyone is different. but if you spend $2000 on an IPSC race-gun and show up at an olympic "free pistol" match.... bring a book to read.... (and vice versa)

For pistol shooting outside the world of competition, I am pretty biased. 1911's and SAA's

A high end .22 is GREAT and affordable to do a lot of practice, I'm partial to the Pardini as mentioned above, but the Smith model 41 is $829 at Sportsman's warehouse.

I subscribe to the philosophy that there have been no advances in handgun technology since 1911. The guy named GOVTMODEL might agree.

High end KIMBERs seem to be pretty good, (but they cannot be used for "LEG" matches due to match rules, for that, I'd go with a Rock River)

You can get a .22 conversion for your Kimber and have both a .22 and a .45 on the same frame and trigger. (and when you try a pardini trigger, you'll understand why we spend $1000 more for that than a ruger)

SIG, CZ, Glock and other foreign blasting guns don't excite me much, but I am kinda biased.

See if you can find a Kimber Team Match II, its a GREAT looking 1911-.45 has special grips with the USA Shooting logo and they donate a bunch of money to USAShooting (which is the US olympic team)


shoot good

Poole

Go visit those websites I posted earlier and ask around there...this really kind of a different crowd compared to what you're looking for. Based on your comments, it really sounds like you're interested in practical shooting, AKA IPSC shooting.

Check out:
http://www.ipsc.org and
http://www.uspsa.org

Also, to correct one tiny point, in precision shooting, points on the target are the ultimate determination of score. In IPSC shooting, it's the points shot divided by the time, which is then compared to everyone else that shoots the same event. There's definitely some accuracy involved, since zero points divided by a zero time is still zero, but the accuracy required to be competitive is not anywhere near what it is in the ISSF events or NRA bullseye.

Also, as someone said, try to go to a competition for each of the disciplines you're interested in. Ask the folks there what they suggest. Heck, most of them will even let you try a few rounds through their guns.

Bill Poole wrote:before you spend money, GO VISIT each of several different competitions, see if any of them appeal to you, ...

I subscribe to the philosophy that there have been no advances in handgun technology since 1911. The guy named GOVTMODEL might agree.

High end KIMBERs seem to be pretty good, (but they cannot be used for "LEG" matches due to match rules, for that, I'd go with a Rock River)

You can get a .22 conversion for your Kimber and have both a .22 and a .45 on the same frame and trigger. (and when you try a pardini trigger, you'll understand why we spend $1000 more for that than a ruger)
....

Poole

To second Bill, IF you buy a .45 ACP, buy a Hardball / EIC gun for Leg matches. With that type of gun you CAN shoot any and all action matches, and any and all Bullseye matches. The ONLY pistols matches you'll be out of are Olympic or ISSF. In short, a .45 ACP hardball gun gives you the most oppurtunities. Note that there are a LOT more Bullseye and Action than Olympic in most parts of the country.

If you don't already have one, a .22 LR is the best place to start. Bullseye matches start with a .22LR. Most action pistol matches do not, but I've heard that many places will let you try the sport with a .22. .22LR is also used to shoot many Olympic sports. You can probably TRY ISSF matches with a Ruger Mark II, but you almost certainly won't win.

Have fun

Mike

If the price of the SIG P226 X-Five hasn't scared you away, you might want to consider the Smith & Wesson Model 952. The 952 is a Custom Shop creation in 9mm that is in the same price class as the X-Five. One unique feature of the X-Five that appeals to me is the adjustable trigger reach.

Another quality gun that comes to mind is the Ed Brown Executive Target model in 45ACP. Good luck in your search.

I can vouch for both the kimber and springfeild guns both are great and wouldn't go for a glock or CZ if they qualify for the same class. My father has just purchased and kimber in 45acp and also a friend at the club, both are awsome and have functioned faultlessly on all ammo that has been feed to both guns. Both have given awsome accuracy scoring a 46 out of a possible 50 on a standard issf 25m target (my fathers one). The glock on the other hand ive found hard to shoot with because of terrible muzzle flip i just dont enjoy shooting it. But issf shooting is so much more challenging and more fun.
I don't think you can go majorly wrong with the choices that you have stated anyway.
Good shooting

(go for a 1911)

Thank you for your very helpful responses! I realize that this is a very specific forum for a particular discipline pf pistol shooting, but of all of the forums that I was referred to for more info on a super-accurate pistol, you guys are far and away the most knowledgable and helpful.

After a lot more research (and talking to shop techs at Sig, CZ, STI, and a couple of trusted gun smiths and shops) over the past few days, I've come to the conclusion that the Sig X-Five is the right choice for me... it seems to be one of the most accurate out-of-the-box "production"-like psitols available, and it has a good reputation for reliability and durability to boot. More than likely, it will live most of it's life in my own friendly bullseye competions between friends, but it's nice to know that I've got a good pistol to start with if I want to try out any of the many bullseye or action shooting competions out there.

Thanks again to everyone for your help!