Over the last few weeks I have been very pleased with my shot process.
I am focussing on sight alignment very well, my stance feels more stable and natural, and my release is (usually) smooth and controlled.
As a result my groups have changed dramatically. On a ten-shot card most (8 or 9) of my shots are within, or touching, the 9 ring. Unfortunately I still tend to shoot at least one seven per ten-round card. 2 months ago I was shooting looser groups (spread around the border of the 8-ring).
I guess I am doing something right, but I think I now need to shift my training to avoiding those terrible loose shots (invariably caused by snatching, or occasionaly, tensing up my muscles as the perfect shot picture suddenly distracts me).
I can call these flyers easily, but I want to be able to stop them happening rather than spectating.
I wonder if doing something to marshal my mental focus is in order?
The flyer inevitably happens at the start of the card (I currently shoot 5 shots, then take a break, then shoot another 5.)
Any advice?
Sorting out flyers
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Sorting out flyers
Last edited by Mike S-J on Mon Mar 27, 2006 5:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Sorting out flyers
I'm new to the sport, but when I throw one early, it's usually because I didn't warm up enough. It takes me about 10 shots before my muscles settle down from normal use. On the flip side, towards the end of my sessions I start getting tired and my muscles start twitching, throwing shots high.Mike S-J wrote:Over the last few weeks I have been very pleased with my shot process.
I am focussing on sight alignment very well, my stance feels more stable and natural, and my release is (usually) smooth and controlled.
As a result my groups have changed dramatically. On a ten-shot card most (8 or 9) of my shots are within the 9 ring. Unfortunately I still tend to shoot at least one seven per ten-round card. 2 months ago I was shooting looser groups (spread around the border of the 8-ring).
I guess I am doing something right, but I think I now need to shift my training to avoiding those terrible loose shots (invariably caused by snatching, or occasionaly, tensing up my muscles as the perfect shot picture suddenly distracts me).
I can call these flyers easily, but I want to be able to stop them happening rather than spectating.
I wonder if doing something to marshal my mental focus is in order?
The flyer inevitably happens at the start of the card (I currently shoot 5 shots, then take a break, then shoot another 5.)
Any advice?
H.
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Steve Swartz
Mike:
Congratulations on sticking with it and appreciating (and noticing!) your own progress.
One issue that is somewhat suggestive of the need for some more fine tuning is your mention of sight "picture;" I would humbly offer that an awareness of sight picture is a symptom that your mental focus has wandered from what is really important. The "snatching" is also a symptom that you are consciously aware of the relationship between the sights and the target. I would offer that this is not a good thing. You are spending precious "bandwidth" on something counterproductive when you perhaps should be devoting more focus on the front sight (physical and, more importantly, mental) and the relationship betweent he two sights (alignment, instead of aim or "picture").
Anyhow- my practical advice on how to avoid flyers- Don't Shoot Them! (with apologies to coaches the world over)
Seriously- you need to develop a "sensitivity" to when conditions are deteriorating. Consistent with comments above, when you are consciously aware of the relationship between the aligned sights and the aiming bull, put the gun down. When you are aware of how long you have been holding against teh aiming area, put the gun down. When any thought other than front sight-align-release enters your awareness, put the gun down.
"It's a lot harder (more work) to shoot an 8 than it is a 10."
Steve Swartz
Congratulations on sticking with it and appreciating (and noticing!) your own progress.
One issue that is somewhat suggestive of the need for some more fine tuning is your mention of sight "picture;" I would humbly offer that an awareness of sight picture is a symptom that your mental focus has wandered from what is really important. The "snatching" is also a symptom that you are consciously aware of the relationship between the sights and the target. I would offer that this is not a good thing. You are spending precious "bandwidth" on something counterproductive when you perhaps should be devoting more focus on the front sight (physical and, more importantly, mental) and the relationship betweent he two sights (alignment, instead of aim or "picture").
Anyhow- my practical advice on how to avoid flyers- Don't Shoot Them! (with apologies to coaches the world over)
Seriously- you need to develop a "sensitivity" to when conditions are deteriorating. Consistent with comments above, when you are consciously aware of the relationship between the aligned sights and the aiming bull, put the gun down. When you are aware of how long you have been holding against teh aiming area, put the gun down. When any thought other than front sight-align-release enters your awareness, put the gun down.
"It's a lot harder (more work) to shoot an 8 than it is a 10."
Steve Swartz
Steve,
I kind-of knew someone would say "don't do it" - and thats my problem - I know I shouldn't.
Most of the time I can push the target out of my search image for that shot cycle.
The problem is the gremlin in my brain was happily snoozing away, but suddenly wakes up and over-rides the bit running the 'shot-process'. All hell breaks loose - usually before I realise.
If I read you right you are asking me to monitor the sleeping gremlin - if he stirs, abort?
Mike
I kind-of knew someone would say "don't do it" - and thats my problem - I know I shouldn't.
Most of the time I can push the target out of my search image for that shot cycle.
The problem is the gremlin in my brain was happily snoozing away, but suddenly wakes up and over-rides the bit running the 'shot-process'. All hell breaks loose - usually before I realise.
If I read you right you are asking me to monitor the sleeping gremlin - if he stirs, abort?
Mike
It's someting that will always be there that's why no one has shot a perfect score in AP. If you work on it, it will get less and less but it is something even the top shooters have to contend with. In essence don't beat yourself up over it, know that it happens and learn how to deal with it when it does (like abort).Mike S-J wrote:Steve,
I kind-of knew someone would say "don't do it" - and thats my problem - I know I shouldn't.
Most of the time I can push the target out of my search image for that shot cycle.
The problem is the gremlin in my brain was happily snoozing away, but suddenly wakes up and over-rides the bit running the 'shot-process'. All hell breaks loose - usually before I realise.
If I read you right you are asking me to monitor the sleeping gremlin - if he stirs, abort?
Mike
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Fred Mannis
- Posts: 1298
- Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 8:37 pm
- Location: Delaware
Mike,
I very much agree with Steve's advice. I do not consider a practice session to be successful, unless I have put the gun down at least once during a 10 shot string. About half the time I can realize something is wrong very quickly, and half the time I drift into overholding because I have lost focus on the front sight or start watching the target. On occasion, I shoot with a with a timer with the goal of releasing the shot within 10 sec from start of raise. I do this just enough to calibrate my internal clock. I know when I am overholding, which for me is about 12 sec.
It feels good when I can count at least 15 of 20 shots inside the 9 ring and the rest in the 8 ring.
Sounds like you are making great progress.
Fred
I very much agree with Steve's advice. I do not consider a practice session to be successful, unless I have put the gun down at least once during a 10 shot string. About half the time I can realize something is wrong very quickly, and half the time I drift into overholding because I have lost focus on the front sight or start watching the target. On occasion, I shoot with a with a timer with the goal of releasing the shot within 10 sec from start of raise. I do this just enough to calibrate my internal clock. I know when I am overholding, which for me is about 12 sec.
It feels good when I can count at least 15 of 20 shots inside the 9 ring and the rest in the 8 ring.
Sounds like you are making great progress.
Fred
What Steve S says goes double for me. Also to supress the "gremlin", rise to the occasion. Channel your concentration with an extra squint in the eye, or purse your lips, or press your tongue on the back of your teeth. That is, do something unrelated to the shot process that puts a lid on the gremlin. Even get a little mad to raise the adrenalin. Toss him out, stomp him into the ground. Plant your feet on him and shoot with gusto. Of course eventually you should come back to earth and shoot normally.
Jackh
Jackh
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Steve Swartz
Mike:
It's about raising your "sensitivity" or "threshold." You will become more sensitive and aware of when the conditions have deteriorated and trigger the abort.
Good point about practice- you should make it a "Standard Operating Procedure" to *never* release a crappy shot. That way, you'll only do it every once in a while! Some days it takes five or more attempts before you actually break your first (or any, for that matter) shot- but keep as much discipline in it as you can.
Also- live fire against a blank target is really a very useful tool . . . not good for match warm-up I'm afraid (but dry fire against a blank target is pretty good for that).
Steve
It's about raising your "sensitivity" or "threshold." You will become more sensitive and aware of when the conditions have deteriorated and trigger the abort.
Good point about practice- you should make it a "Standard Operating Procedure" to *never* release a crappy shot. That way, you'll only do it every once in a while! Some days it takes five or more attempts before you actually break your first (or any, for that matter) shot- but keep as much discipline in it as you can.
Also- live fire against a blank target is really a very useful tool . . . not good for match warm-up I'm afraid (but dry fire against a blank target is pretty good for that).
Steve
I think there has been some progress.
Apropos what Steve has posted on this thread, and the change of tack on the 'sight adjustment' thread about the width of the rear-sight notch, I did a bit of messing about on the range yesterday.
I chased up Nygord's notes (following Steve's advice) and therein was a VERY interesting piece that hit a few raw nerves.
To paraphrase: Narrow spaces between the walls of the rear sight and the blade of the foresight mean sight alignment is less stable, promoting snatching at the trigger during the brief moments of perfect alignment.
Guess what - I used narrow spaces. So I made them wider.
Next (from Nygord), paraphrasing again: A six O'Clock hold creates brief moments of perfect alignment, promoting snatching when... etc.
Guess what - I used a six O'Clock hold. So I tried a sub-six O'clock.
By the time I had sorted out the new sight settings and settled down I had time to shoot 3 cards.
BUGGER ME (thats an English expression of surprise, not a request) - I shot a 94, 93 and 89. No flyers AT ALL on the first two, and one 7 on the last. Otherwise nice tight groups.
It was an epiphany. BLOODY amazing. I just hope its a new platform from which things will develop, rather than a fluke.
Cheers Steve me old cock-sparrow.
Nice one.
M
Apropos what Steve has posted on this thread, and the change of tack on the 'sight adjustment' thread about the width of the rear-sight notch, I did a bit of messing about on the range yesterday.
I chased up Nygord's notes (following Steve's advice) and therein was a VERY interesting piece that hit a few raw nerves.
To paraphrase: Narrow spaces between the walls of the rear sight and the blade of the foresight mean sight alignment is less stable, promoting snatching at the trigger during the brief moments of perfect alignment.
Guess what - I used narrow spaces. So I made them wider.
Next (from Nygord), paraphrasing again: A six O'Clock hold creates brief moments of perfect alignment, promoting snatching when... etc.
Guess what - I used a six O'Clock hold. So I tried a sub-six O'clock.
By the time I had sorted out the new sight settings and settled down I had time to shoot 3 cards.
BUGGER ME (thats an English expression of surprise, not a request) - I shot a 94, 93 and 89. No flyers AT ALL on the first two, and one 7 on the last. Otherwise nice tight groups.
It was an epiphany. BLOODY amazing. I just hope its a new platform from which things will develop, rather than a fluke.
Cheers Steve me old cock-sparrow.
Nice one.
M
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jrmcdaniel
- Posts: 240
- Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:01 pm
- Location: Grantsville, MD
I find the width of the rear sights to be a bit determined by lighting -- with very bright lights, a bit narrower; darker, a bit wider.
re hold under -- I can definitely "see" the front post "grow" as I get close to the bullseye. I have found that first aligning the sights against a plain area of the target (or backer) and then concentrating solely on the front sight helps me. If one practices dry (or "wet") firing at a blank target, then you can make sure the sights stay aligned during the shot -- once you are confident that they do stay aligned, then there is no need to "look" at the rear sight. That said, I am aware of whether the light is changing to the sides of the front sight and restart the shot if that is the case.
A related effect is if there are lighting variations between targets. For NRA matches, they do one shot per target on a 4-target sheet. There can be significant lighting variations between targets and I have found that dark areas will "pull" the pellet toward them if one is not careful in such situations.
Best,
Joe
re hold under -- I can definitely "see" the front post "grow" as I get close to the bullseye. I have found that first aligning the sights against a plain area of the target (or backer) and then concentrating solely on the front sight helps me. If one practices dry (or "wet") firing at a blank target, then you can make sure the sights stay aligned during the shot -- once you are confident that they do stay aligned, then there is no need to "look" at the rear sight. That said, I am aware of whether the light is changing to the sides of the front sight and restart the shot if that is the case.
A related effect is if there are lighting variations between targets. For NRA matches, they do one shot per target on a 4-target sheet. There can be significant lighting variations between targets and I have found that dark areas will "pull" the pellet toward them if one is not careful in such situations.
Best,
Joe
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Fred Mannis
- Posts: 1298
- Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 8:37 pm
- Location: Delaware
-
Fred Mannis
- Posts: 1298
- Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 8:37 pm
- Location: Delaware
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Steve Swartz
Gosh hang in there guys- this sport is a lot like golf- the absolute most frustrating, irritating, counter-intuitive, bass-ackwards most beautiful rewarding addictive game in the universe . . . too bad we have to waste time at work to pay for guns, pellets, and travel!
Mike it's a great wonder when a fellow shooter gets one of them there epiphany things- really just as satisfying as if it happened to me! Stick with it and keep us all informed!
Steve
(still not sure about that "cock sparrow" thing but hey, every culture has it's puzzlers, what? It's not like we have any mysterious sayings over here in the colonies after all . . . )
Mike it's a great wonder when a fellow shooter gets one of them there epiphany things- really just as satisfying as if it happened to me! Stick with it and keep us all informed!
Steve
(still not sure about that "cock sparrow" thing but hey, every culture has it's puzzlers, what? It's not like we have any mysterious sayings over here in the colonies after all . . . )