Do you guys always use the same pellets, or you have different choices.
Tell me if I'm wrong or what, but from what I understand one should use the pellets that performs the best in your rifle/pistol, in that way you lower almost to nothing external failures, so you can concentrate on your own performance.
If that's true why would you use different type of pellets for practicing?
I will like to see some comments on this topic.
Thanks in advance.
MATCH PELLETS - PRACTICE PELLETS
Moderators: pilkguns, Marcus, m1963, David Levene, Spencer
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Ryan Tanoue
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 1:20 am
the idea behind using the best pellets possible is that you can eliminate the possibility of using a lot of "bad" pellets. personally i have had my air rifle tested 5+ times and have never found anything that shoots terribly bad. maybe as wide as 10.4 or 10.5 goups for air rifle. a "good" group would be a 10 shot group that can hold a pellet(10.7+ would be a great group). i think ive found 3 lots that shoot like this out of my rifle all of which are considered my "match lots".
there really isnt a question whether the air rifle or pistol will shoot 10's all the time(unless you are using pellets from wal mart or somthing) any match grade pellets from any of the manufactures(RWS, H&N) will shoot 10s out of your air rifle or pistol all of the time.
The idea behind shooitng your guns best shooting pellets in the match is that you will have a gun that shoots the best groups possible. in practice you should be training technique over shot value so the "grade" of the pellets should be of little consequence. in the match you are still focusing on technique...but the shot value actually counts.
i personally shoot pellets that didnt test as well as my match lot in practice...but before when i only had one match lot i shot whatever match grade pellets i could get my hands on reguardless of what they tested.
my 2cents
ryan
there really isnt a question whether the air rifle or pistol will shoot 10's all the time(unless you are using pellets from wal mart or somthing) any match grade pellets from any of the manufactures(RWS, H&N) will shoot 10s out of your air rifle or pistol all of the time.
The idea behind shooitng your guns best shooting pellets in the match is that you will have a gun that shoots the best groups possible. in practice you should be training technique over shot value so the "grade" of the pellets should be of little consequence. in the match you are still focusing on technique...but the shot value actually counts.
i personally shoot pellets that didnt test as well as my match lot in practice...but before when i only had one match lot i shot whatever match grade pellets i could get my hands on reguardless of what they tested.
my 2cents
ryan
Why on earth would you want to use sub optimal pellets to train with ? The only reason I can think of is to save yourself a tiny amount of money. Pellets are so cheap that it just isn't worth it. I will always use the best quality pellets I can for practice and competitions. If nothing else you are consistently doinbg exactly the same thing which is one of the purposes of training (IMHO).
Rob.
Rob.
I think it is more to save some valuable time that is needed for training. Selecting "match lots" pellets requires to fix the gun's action to a machine rest and test fire strings of several pellet batches to find those "optimal" ones which can hold better than just 10, and reserve them for matches. This procedure may prove to be time consuming, time that would be better invested on practicing technique with any other match grade pellet which will be able to shoot 10's all the time. This is what I infer from Mr. Tanoue's excellent explanation, and coming from one of the World's best air rifle shooters, I would take his advice as Gold!Why on earth would you want to use sub optimal pellets to train with ? The only reason I can think of is to save yourself a tiny amount of money.
I like to know for sure during practice that my shots are going where I am pointing my rifle. However, with pellets most of the decent brands will probably produce very respectable groups that are more than likely adequate for practice. But also, as pointed out above, pellets are cheap and assuming your rifle doesn't only shoot decent with a specific lot of a specific pellet, theres no reason not to practice with your match pellets.
OK I can sort of see the logic behind the above but how often do you actually need to batch test ? That's the sort of thing you do in your rest / start of season cycle and get enough of the same batch to last you the season. My only reservation about the 'practice and match pellets' is a) the fact of having two different batches of pellets and b) the fact that you may accidently pick up the wrong set for competitions.mjfa wrote:I think it is more to save some valuable time that is needed for training. Selecting "match lots" pellets requires to fix the gun's action to a machine rest and test fire strings of several pellet batches to find those "optimal" ones which can hold better than just 10, and reserve them for matches.
Rob.
I know someone out there has a more precise answer than this, but here goes:
Most ammunition components, including airgun pellets, are produced in "lots". All the pellets produced in a given lot have a unique lot number stamped somewhere on the tin. I'm not exactly sure how many tins are in one lot, but I am sure it is a relatively large number, as in thousands.
I know smallbore ammo uses this system and that different lots may shoot differently in the same gun. Ammo from the same lot tends to shoot more consistently than ammo from different lots.
Most ammunition components, including airgun pellets, are produced in "lots". All the pellets produced in a given lot have a unique lot number stamped somewhere on the tin. I'm not exactly sure how many tins are in one lot, but I am sure it is a relatively large number, as in thousands.
I know smallbore ammo uses this system and that different lots may shoot differently in the same gun. Ammo from the same lot tends to shoot more consistently than ammo from different lots.
I don't know how many tins of pellets are in a "Lot" or "Batch".
But, last winter I did some testing with my daughters air rifle in a machine rest. I found 2 different "Lots" of one brand/size of pellet that would consistently fire a 10 shot group no larger than a single pellet hole at 10 meters. I bought 10,000 pellets from one of the lots. She uses them for all of her shooting. When we run out of those I'll start testing again.
Other brands and sizes of match pellets would shoot 5 shot groups almost 2 pellets wide. I think the difference in group size is worth a point here and there, if the shooter does their part.
The pellets I bought for my daughter were no more expensive than any other match pellets. It was just a matter of a couple of Saturday afternoons testing to find the brand and size that her gun liked best.
I see no reason to practice with a substandard pellet.
But, last winter I did some testing with my daughters air rifle in a machine rest. I found 2 different "Lots" of one brand/size of pellet that would consistently fire a 10 shot group no larger than a single pellet hole at 10 meters. I bought 10,000 pellets from one of the lots. She uses them for all of her shooting. When we run out of those I'll start testing again.
Other brands and sizes of match pellets would shoot 5 shot groups almost 2 pellets wide. I think the difference in group size is worth a point here and there, if the shooter does their part.
The pellets I bought for my daughter were no more expensive than any other match pellets. It was just a matter of a couple of Saturday afternoons testing to find the brand and size that her gun liked best.
I see no reason to practice with a substandard pellet.
I always buy my personal pellets in batches of 5000 (10 tins, or an 'outer'). You can also get them in a 'wrap' of 6 sets of outers which is 30 000 pellets - they will all be the same batch - that's how I buy them for our club. My personal supply lasts me 6-8 months or so and that's sufficient for the important matches in my shooting calendar and then I'll top up again.
Rob.
Rob.
I kinda think just like TWP said.
This is the best so far for me:
This is the best so far for me:
RobStubbs: From a 5000 or 30,000 lot how can you know if that's the best ammo for the different guns in your club? Different guns like different ammos. Or is there something that I didn't understood.I see no reason to practice with a substandard pellet.
The club guns are shot by newbies, most of which have trouble hitting the black, never mind the middle of it. The club pellets are therefore cheap but still more than capable of decent scores. The pellets won't be of such a high grade or accuracy as to suffice for decent rifle shooters, but for their purpose they are ideal.BOOKER wrote:I kinda think just like TWP said.
This is the best so far for me:RobStubbs: From a 5000 or 30,000 lot how can you know if that's the best ammo for the different guns in your club? Different guns like different ammos. Or is there something that I didn't understood.I see no reason to practice with a substandard pellet.
The point I was making however was that you can buy your pellets in big batches such that you only need to batch test very infrequently. Doing so you can then use the same batch for all of your shooting use, not just saving the best for competitions.
Rob.
I agree with Ron,
Our club pellets are bought in large batches from CMP. They work fine for begining shooters. They will hit the 10 ring most of the time from our P70 Jr's, more than can be said for the kids shooting them. By the time a shooter has progressed to the point where pellets being matched to the rifle are really adding to their score they most often have bought their own rifle. If not I've tested several of our club guns and I have a pretty good idea of which pellets will perform well in them. (FWIW the P70 Jr's seem to like most any "match grade" pellet in a 4.50 size fairly well)
Our club pellets are bought in large batches from CMP. They work fine for begining shooters. They will hit the 10 ring most of the time from our P70 Jr's, more than can be said for the kids shooting them. By the time a shooter has progressed to the point where pellets being matched to the rifle are really adding to their score they most often have bought their own rifle. If not I've tested several of our club guns and I have a pretty good idea of which pellets will perform well in them. (FWIW the P70 Jr's seem to like most any "match grade" pellet in a 4.50 size fairly well)
BOOKER,BOOKER wrote:TWP and RobStubbs thanks for your replies, I got the point, now I understand.
You guys know your business.
There are a lot of folks here that know the business way better than I do. I've been involved in precision air rifle and 3P small bore for 4 years, and a coach for 3 years.
For the last couple of years I've been doing the accuracy testing/pellet matching for our club, so I know a little bit about it. I've tested about a dozen rifles on a machine rest with about 20 different brands/sizes of pellets each. I'm an engineer by training so I like to look for the best in precision and accuracy.
But I also look at it from an economics point of view. Pellets are relatively cheap. In the case of my daughters rifle the pellets it likes are only available from one dealer. Cost was about $11 per tin of 500 pellets or $110 for a sleeve of 5,000. I could buy "Practice" pellets for half of that cost. My daughter shoots some where between 5,000 and 10,000 pellets a year. So buying "Practice" pellets would save me at most $100 a year. But those cheap practice pellets only hold the 9 ring on a 10 meter air rifle target. What's the cost of her not knowing if a bad shot was her fault or the gun/pellets? Considering all the other money I've spent on this sport for rifles, coat, pants, boots, scope, ect... I think buying cheap pellets for practice and using better more expensive pellets for matches is false economy.
Now if you ever get to the point where you've tested your rifle, found the perfect pellet, and are down to only a couple of tins left, with a major match coming up, and insufficient time to test new batches of pellets, In that case I'd say save your known good pellets as match pellets and shoot something else for practice.
TWP
This topic has always been of my concern but with everybodys comments I got the idea.
Thanks for your replies.
I guess yes, but I said that because you two gave nice 'n clear advices.There are a lot of folks here that know the business way better than I do.
This topic has always been of my concern but with everybodys comments I got the idea.
Since I ordered the adult version (FWB 700 Universal) I will try the same with mine, I will buy a lot of "match grade" pellet and use them for all the shooting.the P70 Jr's seem to like most any "match grade" pellet in a 4.50 size fairly well
Thanks for your replies.
Pellet testing...practice and match
Good input on whether to shoot the good stuff all the time or not. But how do beginer shooters evaluate pellets? We've all read the expert approach but I don't have the equipment to set up my SSP in a "vice" and test just the pellet.
My best approach was to mount a 24x scope and shoot from the bench at 11m (the way my home range works). I used an old target, put small dots on the top and adjusted POI so it was well below the POA. 10 shots at each dot and evaluate. Seven pellets, 2 guns, 140 best executed shots I can muster with plenty or rest between pellets.
Sounds to me after reading this and other posts I should have one .177 hole. I don't. Poor testing methodology? Still need to look for 'matched' pellets? Best the gun can do? Other?
For now I have 5,000 JSB SCHaK pellets which work for me. But I am always interested in improving my understanding for me and the kids.
My best approach was to mount a 24x scope and shoot from the bench at 11m (the way my home range works). I used an old target, put small dots on the top and adjusted POI so it was well below the POA. 10 shots at each dot and evaluate. Seven pellets, 2 guns, 140 best executed shots I can muster with plenty or rest between pellets.
Sounds to me after reading this and other posts I should have one .177 hole. I don't. Poor testing methodology? Still need to look for 'matched' pellets? Best the gun can do? Other?
For now I have 5,000 JSB SCHaK pellets which work for me. But I am always interested in improving my understanding for me and the kids.
Durant,
Here's a test target I shot last year from one of my shooters Anschutz 2002CA's.
All groups are 5 shots except for the ones in the top row listed as 10 shots.
I used an Angie rest clamped to a Black and Decker Workmate. We've upgraded our range a bit and now have a steel platform we bolt to the floor, then the Angie rest is clamped to the steel platform.
Here's a test target I shot last year from one of my shooters Anschutz 2002CA's.
All groups are 5 shots except for the ones in the top row listed as 10 shots.
I used an Angie rest clamped to a Black and Decker Workmate. We've upgraded our range a bit and now have a steel platform we bolt to the floor, then the Angie rest is clamped to the steel platform.
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