TargetTalk

bryan wrote:the bottom photo looks ok. maybe?

The pictures all show the same grip, same hand. So if it is OK in one picture, why is it 'maybe' in another? The size of our hand changes day to day, depending on temperature, what you have eaten, etc. I think the rule should be enforced at equipment control, supplemented by on line checks. Just like trigger weight and other rules.

Some of these wrists look deep into the grip in Free Pistol:

http://www.sfc.pistolcanada.ca/index.ph ... cle&id=191

More evidence that the rules aren't generally being enforced very well?

As a judge I have actually disqualified shooters for this - one time even in the final lineup at a national. But this is one very hard rule to judge correctly.

The ISSF GUIDELINES FOR
UNIFORM EQUIPMENT CONTROL states:
Neither the grip nor any part of the pistol may be
extended or constructed in any way that would
allow it to touch beyond the hand. The wrist must
remain visibly free when the pistol is held in the
normal firing position. Bracelets, wristwatches,
wristbands, or similar items are prohibited on the
hand., and arm, which holds the pistol.
Adjustable grips are permitted providing when
adjusted for the shooter’s hand they conform to
the rules for the event. After the Equipment
Control check, the grip adjustment must not be
changed in any way that conflicts with ISSF
Rules.

Anonymous wrote:As a judge I have actually disqualified shooters for this - one time even in the final lineup at a national. But this is one very hard rule to judge correctly...

Disqualified???

8.9.6.5.1 in the case of open violations of the Rules (pistols, clothing, position, coaching etc.) an official WARNING must first be given so that the shooter may have the opportunity to correct the fault.
Whenever possible, the warning should be given during the training period or sighting shots. If the shooter does not correct the fault within the time stipulated by the Jury, two (2) points must be deducted from his score. If the shooter still does not correct the fault, disqualification must be imposed;

Unless the shooter refused to correct the grip, or 8.9.6.5.2 came into play, surely a warning?

Spencer

Spencer wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a judge I have actually disqualified shooters for this - one time even in the final lineup at a national. But this is one very hard rule to judge correctly...

Disqualified???

8.9.6.5.1 in the case of open violations of the Rules (pistols, clothing, position, coaching etc.) an official WARNING must first be given so that the shooter may have the opportunity to correct the fault.
Whenever possible, the warning should be given during the training period or sighting shots. If the shooter does not correct the fault within the time stipulated by the Jury, two (2) points must be deducted from his score. If the shooter still does not correct the fault, disqualification must be imposed;

Unless the shooter refused to correct the grip, or 8.9.6.5.2 came into play, surely a warning?

Spencer

So in saying this if a shooter get a spot check while he is shooting and his gun fails to meet trigger weight he is ment to only ment to get a warning? As far as the grip goes a fairly good point is to make sure it isn't touching either of the wrist bones

Muffo wrote:...So in saying this if a shooter get a spot check while he is shooting and his gun fails to meet trigger weight he is ment to only ment to get a warning? As far as the grip goes a fairly good point is to make sure it isn't touching either of the wrist bones

There is a specific rule for trigger weight checks: 8.4.2.6.3 Random Trigger Weight control checks must be conducted immediately after the last series in all qualification rounds of 10 m and 25 m events... ...A maximum of three (3) attempts to lift the weight is allowed. Any shooter whose pistol fails this test or when a shooter is selected fails to undertake the test, he must be disqualified.

Spencer

In all these pics the palm rest is in the dark, can't see well how far it goes. Maybe the left side of the grip is longer than the palm rest, like in mine.

I just shaved a couple of mm from the palm rest, to avoid problems with one of the officials I had a problem just short of an official complaint. Don' want another problem.

[\quote] There is a specific rule for trigger weight checks: 8.4.2.6.3 Random Trigger Weight control checks must be conducted immediately after the last series in all qualification rounds of 10 m and 25 m events... ...A maximum of three (3) attempts to lift the weight is allowed. Any shooter whose pistol fails this test or when a shooter is selected fails to undertake the test, he must be disqualified.

Spencer[/quote]

This describes the problem I mentioned. The official grabed the pistol of a fellow shooter by the barrel, lifted carelessly 3 times and declared the shooter disqualified. When I got in (was walking back from the 25m targets and saw the whole thing) and said "this is not the way to do it" he said "that's the way of the manual". The other official said "le'me try", lifted the pistol slowly and it passed. Saved me the cost of picking someone else's fight. And I was ready to make a hell of a mess.

The worst is that, in ISSF rule book, there is a drawing showing a tirgger check with the pistol held with one hand.

More on trigger weights: many yrs ago I saw a testing stand that would hold the pistol vertical and the correct weight would be placed on a platform that would be lowered by turning a screw.

The weight arm would settle slowly over the blade and then another turn of the screw and it would be hanging (or not...) on it. This way no special care would be needed to make a fair test.

jacques b gros wrote:...The worst is that, in ISSF rule book, there is a drawing showing a tirgger check with the pistol held with one hand.

there is a fairly comprehensive explanation of trigger weighing procedure available at http://www.issf-sports.org/documents/sh ... l_2006.pdf

Spencer

Fred wrote:Does anyone remember the thread from a couple of years back in which someone (was it Mark Briggs?) reported getting a grip fitting in Italy? I believe it was the Pardini gripmaker who did the fitting. It was reported that the gripmaker advised extending the palm shelf back as far as possible for maximum support.

Actually, it was me at the Milan World Cup while coaching in 2005. I had just picked up a new grip for my Morini 162EI. Chiro (sp?), the Morini grip maker/fitter was there and set me up. He extended the palm shelf and then had the gun boxed by the WC officials to ensure that it fit. We also did the wave, and the gun and I passed with flying colours.

My hand is larger than some folks, so I can get the advantage without running afoul of the rules.

Patrick

Fred Mannis wrote:The pictures all show the same grip, same hand. So if it is OK in one picture, why is it 'maybe' in another? The size of our hand changes day to day, depending on temperature, what you have eaten, etc. I think the rule should be enforced at equipment control, supplemented by on line checks. Just like trigger weight and other rules.

Yes, the hand contracts and swells depending up ambient temperature, affecting thickness of the hand and palm. It won't cause your the palm to lengthen or shorten.

Just a thought.
Patrick