TargetTalk

And now there's a P-11 it seems.

The P11 Piccolo is quite old, it is for smaller hands, primarily children.
Im not quite sure when it debuted, but I see it being around in 2011
It is NOT a P8X follow on......

spektr wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:27 pm The P11 Piccolo is quite old, it is for smaller hands, primarily children.
Im not quite sure when it debuted, but I see it being around in 2011
It is NOT a P8X follow on......

It has the same frame/receiver as the P44, so I think it's just based around a budget interpretation of that.

First time I saw it on the German site. Strange. Seems not too long ago they still had the 44 up.

nmondal wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:58 am It is pretty apparent that FWB is a better choice - *unless* servicing & support is a problem.
And apparently, in India it is.
I talked with the FWB folks - they pointed me to someone else who called me up and then said - she does not do non - fire-arms.
Now she gave me another no - where when I sent whatsapp - automated response came up.

In a very interesting development - https://www.artekindia.com
- when I talked with them - turns out they have a base model of ( mechanical trigger ) LP - 500 - Small Grip !! surprise !! - with Blue Angel.
It is seating in customs - and hence immediately available ( they just have to courier it only).

Custom LP500 will be taking 70 days - FWB 40 days, I do not think that is advisable ( CORONA - not the beer )
Hence I am going with this one - sorry - and thank you all - and I will definitely buy FWB when situation improves in India.
Thank you all - you have been tremendous help.
Should have bought FWB first chance - but then... am a bit older now, hindsight comes in.

It is being shipped as of now from Delhi to my address.

Hi nmondal,

Any feedback on LP500?
I ordered the same basic model, receiving tomorrow.
How do you find the grip adjustability, trigger etc.?
The basic model lacks an absorber, right? Does it have much recoil?

emre-nur wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 4:53 pm
Hi nmondal,

Any feedback on LP500?
I ordered the same basic model, receiving tomorrow.
How do you find the grip adjustability, trigger etc.?
The basic model lacks an absorber, right? Does it have much recoil?

Hey, because of COVID situation could not shoot the gun (lack of air) - now the range is open.
So could shoot some.
Depends on the grip, with a perfect grip - recoil is just not there.
Trigger is very very nice.
I like it.

Here are the shots from today evening at home.




And I will keep you posted.

nmondal wrote: ↑Mon Jun 28, 2021 10:09 am

emre-nur wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 4:53 pm
Hi nmondal,

Any feedback on LP500?
I ordered the same basic model, receiving tomorrow.
How do you find the grip adjustability, trigger etc.?
The basic model lacks an absorber, right? Does it have much recoil?

Hey, because of COVID situation could not shoot the gun (lack of air) - now the range is open.
So could shoot some.
Depends on the grip, with a perfect grip - recoil is just not there.
Trigger is very very nice.
I like it.

Here are the shots from today evening at home.




And I will keep you posted.

wow, you are doing very well. With the same pistol, I am really a shame. Though I enjoy the thing.
Did you manage to arrange the second stage weight of the trigger? The trigger blade seems to obstruct the screw.

emre-nur wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 5:39 am
wow, you are doing very well. With the same pistol, I am really a shame. Though I enjoy the thing.
Did you manage to arrange the second stage weight of the trigger? The trigger blade seems to obstruct the screw.

The "elders" in the Walther decided not to give any tools with the basic model.
You need this.
https://www.amazon.in/gp/product/B00JLJ ... UTF8&psc=1
(Or equivalent. in USD that is 5$. )
Once you have it, pls let me know I can help you with it. But no I did not need to change the trigger weight - cause they are set exactly what it should be ( I suppose ).

Do not worry about the scores and all. I am trying to do this ( part time) from 2019 onwards. I have a lengthy head start.
You can read from here:
https://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=27206

This is today.
I think left side stray shots are due to trigger pull.

nmondal wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 8:53 am

emre-nur wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 5:39 am
wow, you are doing very well. With the same pistol, I am really a shame. Though I enjoy the thing.
Did you manage to arrange the second stage weight of the trigger? The trigger blade seems to obstruct the screw.

The "elders" in the Walther decided not to give any tools with the basic model.
You need this.
https://www.amazon.in/gp/product/B00JLJ ... UTF8&psc=1
(Or equivalent. in USD that is 5$. )
Once you have it, pls let me know I can help you with it. But no I did not need to change the trigger weight - cause they are set exactly what it should be ( I suppose ).

Do not worry about the scores and all. I am trying to do this ( part time) from 2019 onwards. I have a lengthy head start.
You can read from here:
https://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=27206


This is today.
I think left side stray shots are due to trigger pull.

Thanks for the reply.
I have seen your posts in the Indian forum. You have been shooting well for a long time. I would ask, do you have exercises, drills etc. that you regularly follow? Do you stretch, dry fire or etc. before starting to shoot?
Regarding the tool you suggest, actually, I have a similar walther tool which came with the pistol. The problem is, the trigger blade obstructs the second stage screw.
https://targettalk.org/download/file.ph ... &mode=view

A bit more info:

I have a DIY trigger scale and the factory setting seemed a little light, or just at the border, so I increased the first stage weight and it is now around 550g— I hope :) I see that the angle of the trigger blade makes some difference.

My problem: in the factory setting, all the weight seems to be on the second stage. I have a heavy second stage after a very light first stage. This makes a smooth shot release very difficult. My idea is to distribute the weight a bit more evenly . Maybe, like 150-350 apprx.

As said, so far I could not figure out how to reach the screw. For someone with no engineering skills, the whole trigger system (or everything on the pistol) looks very delicate— afraid of messing it up!

The screw to move the trigger blade forward/backward seems tight, again afraid to force it, and not sure if that would help reach the 2nd stage screw, may be with an "L" shaped tool.

As said, the manual tells to dismantle the grip but I guess this is for a slightly different design. Because, it doesn't look like dismantling the grip would help reaching the screw. And yes, I am also afraid to dismantle the grip—let alone changing the grip angle which might be necessary.

I have similar issues with the sights as well. I could not change/rotate the front sight and instead narrowed a bit the rear one (I guess the same or similar effect).

It seems like I have a long way to go. There is much more to learn and practice until being able to release the shot at the right moment. Otherwise, I can keep on shooting like a cow-boy :)

When I saw you mention tools, I have been using Bondhus for years. Having
the correct wrenches means you buy 2 of them, 3 tops. These are better than
multi wrench in a holder sets because they are capable of very fine work, and
don't mark the gun with hard sharp handle edges.......


https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/64524036

I'll second the vote for Bondhus. I bought a bunch of 1.27 mm hex keys to compare after losing battles with a MatchGun MG2 trigger adjustment screw. I tried Bondhus, PD Swiss, Wiha & whoever McMaster Carr sells. The Bondhus keys are tighter tolerance in width, and the ends are cut nice & square. Many of the cheaper (and not so cheaper) brands shear the ends, which leaves them at an angle. As best I can tell McMaster sells Bondhus keys. I would have included Allen brand keys, but they don't make that size.

In the end, it turned out the biggest problem with the MG2 screw was that they had managed to get thread locker in the hex hole, so you couldn't get a key in very far. The key needs to be cut short, and they may have ruined the temper as well when the cut down the one supplied with the pistol.

Gwhite wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 7:31 pm I'll second the vote for Bondhus. I bought a bunch of 1.27 mm hex keys to compare... I would have included Allen brand keys, but they don't make that size.

Wait, educate me. How are 1.27mm and .050" keys different?

+100 on quality of Bondhus.

emre-nur wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 9:41 am do you have exercises, drills etc. that you regularly follow? Do you stretch, dry fire or etc. before starting to shoot?

In my utter failure to qualify in zone level championship consecutive 2 times (happens once in 2 years) I learned the truth hard way.
To succeed in competition, one can not start with sighters/dry fire even for minutes.

We must be ready from the word go and start shooting 10. Every shot.
Anytime. Prepared for any time. Even after just waking up from deep sleep we should be able to hit 10s.
Sad, but true. I know it takes the fun away man, but competition shooting is done to win it, not to enjoy. Of course one should enjoy it, but the objective must be to perform well.

emre-nur wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 9:41 am Regarding the tool you suggest, actually, I have a similar walther tool which came with the pistol. The problem is, the trigger blade obstructs the second stage screw.
https://targettalk.org/download/file.ph ... &mode=view

A bit more info:

I have a DIY trigger scale and the factory setting seemed a little light, or just at the border, so I increased the first stage weight and it is now around 550g— I hope :) I see that the angle of the trigger blade makes some difference.

My problem: in the factory setting, all the weight seems to be on the second stage. I have a heavy second stage after a very light first stage. This makes a smooth shot release very difficult. My idea is to distribute the weight a bit more evenly . Maybe, like 150-350 apprx.

As said, so far I could not figure out how to reach the screw. For someone with no engineering skills, the whole trigger system (or everything on the pistol) looks very delicate— afraid of messing it up!


The screw to move the trigger blade forward/backward seems tight, again afraid to force it, and not sure if that would help reach the 2nd stage screw, may be with an "L" shaped tool.

As said, the manual tells to dismantle the grip but I guess this is for a slightly different design. Because, it doesn't look like dismantling the grip would help reaching the screw. And yes, I am also afraid to dismantle the grip—let alone changing the grip angle which might be necessary.

I have similar issues with the sights as well. I could not change/rotate the front sight and instead narrowed a bit the rear one (I guess the same or similar effect).

Do not try to do those. Just don't. I did that man, I sucked and it literally destroyed my earlier Hammerli AP 20 Pro.
What you need to do is aim to yellow/white wall - get a perfect sight - and then dry fire. If possible, for hours.
And then check the following while dry firing - is your sight picture being destabilised or not. It should not. There should be no movement while completing the dry shot.
Give it 7 days. Fill up the cylinder - and dry fire against a white wall.
Dry fire against the actual target.
By 8th day, when you would start shooting you would see everything would be 9 ish.

I urge you, as one novice to other please try not to worry about the trigger.
Trust me when I say this, the trigger is literally amazing ( may be not as great as FWB, I donno that ) but it is amazing when it works.

Even Steyr Evo 10 Electronic trigger has exactly similar pressure curve.
After doing all of these, you would be very clear where your shots are going,
after a bad shot you would know that was bad shot without even looking at the target.
After 2 years of shooting - I have come to the following definitions for 10 M Air Pistol Shooting.

Anything that is not a high 9 (9.5 < ) is a bad shot.
A good shot is only 10s.
A great shot is 10.5 and above.
A moderate shot is low 9.
7,8s are not shots. They are catastrophe. :(

I understand it takes away the fun aspect of it, but it is an Olympic sports. But unless a very high bar is set beforehand - it won't work.
It is literally sleep. dream. shoot. repeat.

Here is from today. You can see there are 2 catastrophe there.


Now, if I can repeat these same shots on 3 more targets, in a competition setting, that will only take the score to 374/400, a score that is worthy of a medal in the state.
The trouble is, it is Olympic sports. So, to qualify in the finals of the Olympics, one must score 580/600 --> 97/100
Now, if you observe if I correct my mistake - of 2 8s to convert them into 9s, it will just be 96/100.
Still not good enough.
That means.. my shots are not good enough.
Good enough must be relative to the very best.
:-)
I know it is a long post, and probably I bored you to death, but that is sort of my philosophy about life.
Sleep.Dream. Shoot. Repeat.
And please, please, please do not give up. No matter what other people says. If you stick long enough, you can. You will. We all might.

Do yourself a favor, buy all three of them, Steyr Evo E, Walther 500, and the FWB p8x. Shoot them extensively for a while, then decide which one brings you the best scores. Then trade off the guns you do not want to own. I have bought them all, favor the Walther 500, but will keep my Steyr Evo E (alongside my older Steyr LP 10). The FWB P8x i may trade off.

northpaw wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:51 pm Do yourself a favor, buy all three of them, Steyr Evo E, Walther 500, and the FWB p8x. Shoot them extensively for a while, then decide which one brings you the best scores. Then trade off the guns you do not want to own. I have bought them all, favor the Walther 500, but will keep my Steyr Evo E (alongside my older Steyr LP 10). The FWB P8x i may trade off.

money talks!

northpaw wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:51 pm Do yourself a favor, buy all three of them, Steyr Evo E, Walther 500, and the FWB p8x. Shoot them extensively for a while, then decide which one brings you the best scores. Then trade off the guns you do not want to own. I have bought them all, favor the Walther 500, but will keep my Steyr Evo E (alongside my older Steyr LP 10). The FWB P8x i may trade off.

Tell me what you don't like about the P8X. It's on my list of what I think I would like to try.

brent375hh wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 4:38 pm
Tell me what you don't like about the P8X. It's on my list of what I think I would like to try.

+1

emre-nur wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 4:02 pm

northpaw wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:51 pm Do yourself a favor, buy all three of them, Steyr Evo E, Walther 500, and the FWB p8x. Shoot them extensively for a while, then decide which one brings you the best scores. Then trade off the guns you do not want to own. I have bought them all, favor the Walther 500, but will keep my Steyr Evo E (alongside my older Steyr LP 10). The FWB P8x i may trade off.

money talks!

All mine ever says is "Goodbye!"

brent375hh wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 4:38 pm Tell me what you don't like about the P8X. It's on my list of what I think I would like to try.

Well, I have simply got addicted to electronic triggers, it seems. I very much liked the P8X at first, but when I got the Walther 500 E,I fount that gun to bring me slightly better scores. I feel there is some more variability in the absorber by the P8x than in the Walther 500 E. The latter has an magnetic feature in its absorber, I recon. But all of the three are recommendable guns.(500E, Evo E, P8X).

[/quote]
7,8s are not shots. They are catastrophe. :(
[/quote]

You can shoot 5 8's and still have the possibility of shooting a 390/400. Granted, 8's are not desired, but labeling them in such a fatalistic way will not help you WHEN they happen. I'm learning to forget the undesirable and focus on the my desirable performances is much better for my mental status than obsessing over how not to "muck it up".

I tell my juniors, obsess over how/why you shoot the 10's, forget about other shots, they're not worth giving thought to.