TargetTalk

Maybe the reason for this butt plate modification was to gain some extra length?
I´m 185cm. Clubmate who sold this rifle in the 80´s is over 75 years old now and still approx. my height.

Hi Jiri,

the original factory butt is adjustable for length; I can't remember exactly how much longer, but I think it's about 7cm, which is maybe a little more than the extra piece gives.

1.85m (same height as me) is tall enough that the butt won't be much too long, maybe a little, but maybe just right, or matbe even a little short.

I asked the previous owner of the rifle about the butt modification.
He didn´t make it personally but one other clubmate made it. Reason being that this system gives more adjustment range in tilting the butt plate sideways.

Can you say if this mod is legal by the rules? I´ll read the rulebook to see if there are some rules about this or other things about the rifle.

I heard today that my shooting jacket is not "legal" Too many pockets and closed with zipper instead of buttons.. Then again, it´s the only leather jacket I have and I bought from department store maybe 3 years ago for daily use, not for shooting..

I could be wrong but I thought zip fastening was still ok - as for too many pockets, just rip them off.

Rob.

RobStubbs wrote:I could be wrong but I thought zip fastening was still ok - as for too many pockets, just rip them off.

Rob.

Zip fastening is specifically mentioned in the rules as being an allowable method of closing the jacket. Specifically Rule 7.5.4.2; Closure of the jacket must be only by non-adjustable means e.g. buttons or zippers. This same rule then goes on to give the maximum overlap of 100 mm and the "looseness" test that requires the jacket to overlap the normal closure by at least 70mm.

The main issue with using a zip fastener is that the rules require a 6.0 to 8.0 Kg force to be applied to achieve the required overlap. The approved measuring device used during equipment control though is only able to be used on a jacket fitted with both buttons and button holes. Not too sure of what would happen at EC if the jacket while within the rules was unable to be properly tested, I guess it would fail EC so you would be unable to actually use it in full ISSF Competitions.

Personally although technically allowed I think I would always go with a shooting jacket with buttons. That way when you get larger (as seems to inevitably happen over the years) you have some room to adjust the position of the buttons. It is even possible to screw extension straps to the jacket and position the buttons on those, while staying within the rules.

I believe the OP mentioned that it was actually a normal street jacket, so not really ideal for shooting anyway, and unlikely to simply have patch pockets that can be "ripped off". It is possible to get a proper shooting jacket in double canvass relatively cheaply, or of course a second hand one could be acquired, which may need the patch pocket on the outside removing to make legal under ISSF rules. I'm not aware of the situation in Sweden where the OP is from, but in most countries the domestic rules for club level smallbore equipment are nowhere as stringent as for full ISSF matches, so that generally any kit that has in the past been acceptable generally stays that way. This is usually done so that there is a supply of reasonable second hand kit available for new shooters at the grass roots levels.

Alan

BigAl wrote:I'm not aware of the situation in Sweden where the OP is from, but in most countries the domestic rules for club level smallbore equipment are nowhere as stringent as for full ISSF matches, so that generally any kit that has in the past been acceptable generally stays that way.
Alan

According to JiriK profile he is from Finland and altough Sweden is a neigbour to Finland there is a big difference. As I've understand Finland only shoot 50m smallbore according to ISSF rules. We in Sweden both shoot under ISSF rules and some domestic rules for 50m smallbore. Under the domestic rules the rifle must follow the 300m standard rifle rules.

Apologies to both JiriK and Johan for mixing up your countries. If indeed Finland only shoots smallbore under ISSF rules then I would suggest that a good basic jacket would be money well spent.

If you are planning on only shooting prone then you may well be able to pick up a bargain second hand from the AR/3P shooters as I understand the Horizontal seam rule only applies if you will be shooting in the standing position, and your elbow comes close enough to touch the seam. Otherwise the Gehmann 403 basic double canvass jacket is a really good one and available at very reasonable prices compared to some. Intershoot in Northern Ireland also seem to be the only supplier for the Schultz London brand. My daughter has one it is not bad for a basic club level jacket, and a bit cheaper still than the Gehmann. Link to both jackets here

Alan

Alan, thanks for that link!
Rifle shooters in my club agree that I should buy a proper shooting jacket.
But they were talking about much more expensive jackets.. 600+€ range.

I will be shooting prone only. I may at some point try kneeling and standing just to see how difficult they are with rifle, but not going to practice those positions.

Buying a jacket is not on top of my todo- list at the moment.
I stripped the threads on that modified butt plate adjusting thing.
Fixed by drilling and retapping to M8 (was M6) but the hole where butt plate supporting bar goes is somewhat loose. No matter how tight I fasten the screw, buttplate assembly is still able to move a couple of millimeters, mostly up and down. Not good for consistency. wtb parts for original 1613 butt plate mount.

Did some ammo testing today; we have a machine rest in our shooting range.

Got the smallest 10 shot groups with the most expensive (9-12€/50) and least expensive (2,7-3€/50) cartridges. No problem selecting the training ammo from now on as I use TopShot comp. in my 25m pistol too.

But 15 or 16mm edge to edge is a bit much if 10 ring is 10.4mm...

I´ll try to buy/borrow torque wrench and see how proper screw tension affects some of those groups. At the moment the screws are hand tightened to approx. 5Nm. Clubmate said these rifles have a sweetspot somewhere under 4Nm and another at little over 6Nm.

15-16 mm EtE at 50m is not really that bad. Not brilliant but certainly useable. To hold the ISSF 50m ten ring you need to hold a 21.6 mm EtE group. I would think that 15-16 mm EtE would just about hold the inner ten, Although I don't remember the exact size. For EtE groups you add TWICE the bullet diameter to the scoring ring diameter to find the necessary group size.

I think for the Eley test range the record is around 10 mm, 12 mm is considered excellent and under 15 mm is good.

Alan

Taken direct from ELEY,

Range Records:
November 2008
Best 40 x shot consolidated group = 13,90mm by Rajmond Debevec Olympic shooter from Slovenia
Rifle: Feinwerkbau 2700
Batch Selected: 1008-04235
Best 40 x shot consolidated score = 426,1 by Rajmond Debevec Olympic shooter from Slovenia
Rifle: Feinwerkbau 2700
Batch Selected: 1008-04235

November 2009
Best 40 x shot consolidated score = 428,0 by Glenn Sulser, US Army Marksmanship Unit
Rifle: Anschutz 1813 with Shilen barrel
Batch Selected:

This record on the Eley site seems now a little outdated.

The following picture shows a test on the new Eley test range in Fellach, Germany. This test was posted from a shooter from Poland on the NZL target shooting forum and as far i know this Bleiker rifle was from the former Czech Olympic champion Miroslav Varga.

Here you can read the whole thread on the Kiwi site:

http://www.targetshooting.co.nz/ubbthre ... l#Post2365


But this new record is not the most important thing. It shows only what is possible and what not. The real point is you have to test your ammo for match smallbore rifle shooting and not the brand, the lot makes the difference. If you don't test it is easy possible to get a result like shown in the following thread. And no, such results doesn't general mean the barrel has gone or is bad. I have seen tests with a real good barrel, which shoot with some lot RWS R50 only a score of 95. Even Martynov couldn't shoot more than 570 in a match with such a combo. And no, there was nothing wrong, it was only the wrong lot in the wrong barrel.

http://www.targettalk.org/viewtopic.php ... ighlight=


Regards

Frank

This record on the Eley site seems now a little outdated.

The above picture shows a test on the new Eley test range in Fellach, Germany. This test was posted from a shooter from Poland on the NZL target shooting forum and as far i know this Bleiker rifle was from the former Czech Olympic champion Miroslav Varga.

Here you can read the whole thread on the Kiwi site:

[url]http://www.targetshooting.co.nz/ubbthre ... l#Post2365[/url]


But this new record is not the most important thing. It shows only what is possible and what not. The real point is you have to test your ammo for match smallbore rifle shooting and not the brand, the lot makes the difference. If you don't test it is easy possible to get a result like shown in the following thread. And no, such results doesn't general mean the barrel has gone or is bad. I have seen tests with a real good barrel, which shoot with some lot RWS R50 only a score of 95. Even Martynov couldn't shoot more than 570 in a match with such a combo. And no, there was nothing wrong, it was only the wrong lot in the wrong barrel.

[url]http://www.targettalk.org/viewtopic.php ... highlight=
[/url]


Regards

Frank

A little follow-up.

I have trained rifle shooting on average twice a week since I bought the rifle. Total of 4350 shots fired. Ordered a jacket few months ago, but it was too small so I ordered bigger one few weeks ago. Also bought a later model buttplate from egun and tried to shoot with it for the first time today.

Came close to 100pts series last friday, but ended up with 98. Today shot my first 100 :) A bit lucky series, but there it is. Shot with SK Magazine cartridges. I´v done 571 so far while training, only 568 in competition. Not really competitive results, but steady progress so far.

Hi Jiri,

congratulations on your first 100.

Keep practising, and I'm sure more will come. 570 is not at all bad after only six months. Good coaching/advice on technique and rifle fit will help to improve your scores.

The butt is the 4760 form the 1980s and 1990s; it's still desirable. Many can be seen at World Cup matches, some on older wood stocks, and some on new rifles.

579 today :)

Another follow-up; ca. 6500 shots fired with rifle now.
My competition record in 60rds - 575 and 291 with 30 shots.
Shot another 100p series at Finnish military reserve championship competition last summer :)
Still a long way to go to the winning side of the score sheet, but getting closer..

I started thinking about accuracy of the rifle some time ago. So bolted it in the machine rest.
There were some 100p/10 shot series, but nothing magnificent.

So I started thinking about re-bedding the action to the stock.
After reading a lot about rifle bedding from various forums, I tried how it goes.

Photos before and after. https://www.dropbox.com/sh/5aa79mpg3p8j ... s-jJa?dl=0
Little round holes in the old bedding compound were drilled by me, just to see how thick the layer is.
I think Anschutz should have M6 mounting screws? Mine has M8 in front and M6 in the back. Both with fine thread.

Result after first test.. +-0. Didn´t get much better, but not worse either.

I scraped epoxy off the top surface of recoil lug after taking those pictures. I´ll go do more testing today or tomorrow.

Jiri,

no none of those test groups is particularly good, apart from the Pistol King, but then some of the ammo is not what I'd call match quality.

In your photos there seem to be epoxy bedding in the fore-end, in front of the receiver bedding. It's not normal practise to have bedding here. Have you considered removing this extra bedding? Many of your test groups are quite tall, which may be caused by the barrel bedding.

Tim, those two spots of quick epoxy filler were used to position the barrel in the stock while bedding epoxy was curing. They were removed after bedding was cured. Or do you mean that the ca. inch long section of bedding material just front of receiver should be removed? I made it because that´s the way this action was bedded before too.. It can be removed if needed.

Mea culpa. I meant the lumps in the barrel channel, not the continuation of the bedding at the chamber end of the barrel. If you can't get any ammo to test well, you could grind down the epoxy under the barrel. I'd maybe think of testing some better ammo. Perhaps give the barrel a though clean (with lead removing oil and a bronze brush) if it hasn't had one recently.