TargetTalk

Is it possible to be a hobby shooter and have an international level score at the same time?
What does one need to accomplish this task? Not too much.

It is hard to believe, isn’t it? It is difficult because one is using the same system of decisions, supporting current beliefs.
In order to adopt a new system, we need a new process to make the correct and knowledgeable decision. A decision which is based on new data.

I am a hobby shooter. I am not the least bit ashamed of that. I shoot because it's fun, and because I find that the mental drills to get ready to shoot and then to shoot are stress relievers. And I find it satisfying to watch my average scores (I shoot one or two 10-shot strings "for record" each week, no more -- the rest are for group and consistency) go up a point or so every couple of weeks. When I started last October I could count on scores in the mid 70s for a 10-shot string. Now I am rarely below an 83 and usually in the 85-91 range.

At 70 and with deteriorating eyes, my ambitions are limited. I know I won't make the Olympics in 2016 ;-) ; and I just hope I'll be around to see the Olympics in 2020. :-( I would like to be good enough to find a club in the area and shoot in the middle or upper middle of the pack and not embarrass myself.

I wish Russ would at least solve his current puzzle by saying what his "one word" is.

Russ is a believer in neurlinguistic programming as a way of using language to change the way you think and act. I was exposed to it rather intensely a few years ago, and I am definitely not. Once you get past the ability to shoot a single 10 (or 10X), and know when the shot breaks that it's good, the mental game is to hold sight alignment and do the exact same thing time after time after time. That doesn't require magic words as far as I'm concerned.

Confession of bias: I am a physicist.

--pz

The scores one posts today have nothing to do whatever with whether the shooter is a hobby shooter or a highly competitive international shooter. Everybody starts somewhere, and very few will start at 550 and above.

The young man or woman shooter who picked up a gun for the first time a month ago and who fell in love with the sport and decided to master it at the highest level possible is not necessarily a hobby shooter and is due our encouragement and assistance (well, your assistance since my skills aren't that good), regardless of whether he or she is a 490 or a 580 today. If we don't do that, one of these days we'll look around and all the shooters on the line will be doddering old folks and there won't be any new international shooters out there.

peterz wrote:I am a hobby shooter. I am not the least bit ashamed of that. I shoot because it's fun, and because I find that the mental drills to get ready to shoot and then to shoot are stress relievers. And I find it satisfying to watch my average scores (I shoot one or two 10-shot strings "for record" each week, no more -- the rest are for group and consistency) go up a point or so every couple of weeks. When I started last October I could count on scores in the mid 70s for a 10-shot string. Now I am rarely below an 83 and usually in the 85-91 range.

At 70 and with deteriorating eyes, my ambitions are limited. I know I won't make the Olympics in 2016 ;-) ; and I just hope I'll be around to see the Olympics in 2020. :-( I would like to be good enough to find a club in the area and shoot in the middle or upper middle of the pack and not embarrass myself.

I wish Russ would at least solve his current puzzle by saying what his "one word" is.

Russ is a believer in neurlinguistic programming as a way of using language to change the way you think and act. I was exposed to it rather intensely a few years ago, and I am definitely not. Once you get past the ability to shoot a single 10 (or 10X), and know when the shot breaks that it's good, the mental game is to hold sight alignment and do the exact same thing time after time after time. That doesn't require magic words as far as I'm concerned.

Confession of bias: I am a physicist.

--pz

There is no need for confession.

what his "one word"

It is not my word and this word is still on the same page. But if you need to understand your own related issue (as we discussed with you in a private conversation) in order to elevate your own performance, this word will be helpful to you too. This word is a part of a concept of the system in which I’m talking about. As the scientist you can make you own input to enlighten us with your knowledge. Please read the book.
P.S.
Russ also is a believer in speech analysis. ;)

Any shooter with a day job and does not have support from a sponsor, military, government, or governing body, is a hobby shooter.

jackh wrote:Any shooter with a day job and does not have support from a sponsor, military, government, or governing body, is a hobby shooter.

By your definition, there is no internal drive to accomplish anything, probably this is an extremely boring activity :(

Dev: I apologize for you having to go through lots of angst for what should be a straight forward answer. Seems some are still trying to be the pivot man in a circle jerk. ( That's a US thing for immature boys).

To develop a hold you can't just exercise for a short bit and then stop, I would suggest a regiment of physical training one day, in the morning. Then not shooting until the next day's afternoon. This will allow you muscles to settle after exercise . I used to train with 5 US pounds, lifting and holding for 30 seconds, then rest 30 seconds. Do this until you feel tired.

Another point I would make is to not keep score in training and or shoot more than ten shots to avoid adding totals. From the sounds of your level at present, score may be a barrier to performance in training. If you want to check your performance level, schedule a "practice" match with a peer.

Once again, sorry you had to endure our resident troll.

Happy shooting, Greg

There is only one question what makes YOU (Greg Deer) think or judge someone's expression on a FREE forum. Are you trying to police here?
What makes you feel you advise better than someone else? Do you have some special certificate on the wall? :)
P.S.
I definitely can’t disagree with your vision about the circus (Entertainment). Straight to the point!

If you just read the acknowledgement for contributors of this book and understand the significance of simplicity of the explanation. You may start to understand that a gold mine was in front of your nose for last 20 - 25 years! Good reading my circus friend!

Sorry, 20 years. First edition January 1991.
Available at Amazon from $3.16 Used as good and New from $17.50

To understand way of practice read Bill Pullum and Frank Hanenkrrat good as well as for pistol shooters.

Hi Russ,

Could you outline a dry fire routine for me please? How long, how may times and all that. I did do it religiously before the last nationals but have fallen short of it now.

Regards,

Dev

Greg Derr wrote:Dev: I apologize for you having to go through lots of angst for what should be a straight forward answer. Seems some are still trying to be the pivot man in a circle jerk. ( That's a US thing for immature boys).

To develop a hold you can't just exercise for a short bit and then stop, I would suggest a regiment of physical training one day, in the morning. Then not shooting until the next day's afternoon. This will allow you muscles to settle after exercise . I used to train with 5 US pounds, lifting and holding for 30 seconds, then rest 30 seconds. Do this until you feel tired.

Another point I would make is to not keep score in training and or shoot more than ten shots to avoid adding totals. From the sounds of your level at present, score may be a barrier to performance in training. If you want to check your performance level, schedule a "practice" match with a peer.

Once again, sorry you had to endure our resident troll.

Happy shooting, Greg

Hi Greg,

Thank you for your tips. I am incorporating a little jogging, a few push ups and I will do the holding the dumb bell thing that you suggest. Holding a two liter water bottle while at work had really cut my groups down, I shall continue to do so.

Let's see how I do at standard pistol practice tomorrow morning.

Warm Regards,

Dev

A few questions for Russ, please. I grasp the basics of goal, plan, action; but I wonder about this. How detailed is the plan to be? Is the best plan very detailed or is a general outline better?

How does one test the plan to see if it's delivering optimal results? When is it appropriate to change the plan?

PM sent

Dev wrote:Hi Russ,

Could you outline a dry fire routine for me please? How long, how may times and all that. I did do it religiously before the last nationals but have fallen short of it now.

Regards,

Dev

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PM sent

Dev wrote:Hi Russ,

Could you outline a dry fire routine for me please? How long, how may times and all that. I did do it religiously before the last nationals but have fallen short of it now.

Regards,

Dev

Did you check your local sources? Looks to me that you guys could soon start outsourcing coaches to The USA. :))

Indians For Guns is India's own forum for technical discussion about firearms, firearm advocacy, gun rights, RKBA and shooting sports in India
http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php ... 7&start=45

Dev, I’m also interested to learn from you. Why did Olympic target shooting (ISSF) become suddenly popular in India?
I understand what is going on in Russia, but about India I have no clue.
We can use your help to improve our "grassroots" too.
In this terrible economy we can use the Indian experience to stabilize our economy and to improve Olympic pistol shooting at the same time ;)
I’m glad you came here.

Russ wrote:

"Why did Olympic target shooting (ISSF) become suddenly popular in India? "

I seem to remember something about an Olympic gold medal???

It seems Russ might be a bit weak in his google fu. So here ya go skipper:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/olympic ... 553228.stm

Gerard wrote:It seems Russ might be a bit weak in his google fu. So here ya go skipper:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/olympic ... 553228.stm

I have to thank you gentlemen (Dev and Gerard) for tips about India and Google. This will be great business idea. :)
Make an instructional DVD for different level of performances and sell it online. Google will do the rest. Globalization is a good thing. We can have a lot of countries where we can find an interest in better performance if traditional grassroots are not really an effective system. :)
I can also use different languages (English, Russian, Ukrainian, and Byelorussian) to triple the income.
I know you guys are good! :)

You can pretend to be someone else online and hide your own identity, even if you can be the same person with multiple identities online, but you cannot hide that you are smart. “Doc you GOOD! You GOOD Doc!
“Analyze This” movie quote.

http://www.great-quotes.com/cgi-bin/vie ... alyze+This

It is a real pleasure for me to talk with you guys who are really, really, really worried about Olympic style target shooting performance around the world!

I have to thank you gentlemen (Dev and Gerard) for tips about India and Google. This will be great business idea. :)
Make an instructional DVD for different level of performances and sell it online. Google will do the rest. Globalization is a good thing. We can have a lot of countries where we can find an interest in better performance if traditional grassroots are not really an effective system. :)
I can also use different languages (English, Russian, Ukrainian, and Byelorussian) to triple the income.
I know you guys are good! :)

You can pretend to be someone else online and hide your own identity, even if you can be the same person with multiple identities online, but you cannot hide that you are smart. “Doc you GOOD! You GOOD Doc!
“Analyze This” movie quote.

http://www.great-quotes.com/cgi-bin/vie ... alyze+This

I have to thank you gentlemen (Dev and Gerard) for tips about India and Google. This will be great business idea. :)
Make an instructional DVD for different level of performances and sell it online. Google will do the rest. Globalization is a good thing. We can have a lot of countries where we can find an interest in better performance if traditional grassroots are not really an effective system. :)
I can also use different languages (English, Russian, Ukrainian, and Byelorussian) to triple the income.
I know you guys are good! (smart) :)

You can pretend to be someone else online and hide your own identity, even if you can be the same person with multiple identities online, but you cannot hide that you are smart. “Doc you GOOD! You GOOD Doc!
“Analyze This” movie quote.

It is a real pleasure for me to talk with you guys who are really, really, really worried about Olympic style target shooting performance around the world!

william wrote:A few questions for Russ, please. I grasp the basics of goal, plan, action; but I wonder about this. How detailed is the plan to be? Is the best plan very detailed or is a general outline better?

How does one test the plan to see if it's delivering optimal results? When is it appropriate to change the plan?

So, what are you trying to do?
Alice:”Which way should I do from here?”
Cheshire Cat:”Depends a lot on where you want to get to.”
Alice: “I don’t much care.”
Cat: “Then it doesn’t really matter which way you go”
Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland

Only long range goal or goals will keep you from being frustrated by short –range failures.
One is need a starting point on own goal map and final point of destination.

How does one test the plan to see if it's delivering optimal results? When is it appropriate to change the plan?

Plan to do what exactly?

What is your defenition of optimal results? (in AP for example: 520, 540, 560, or 580?)
It depends on your starting point, your final goal, and your sources (time frame and real motivation if you have one).

When is it appropriate to change the plan?
When the short range goal is achieved, it is an acceptable clue to step forward to the next short term goal if someone has it written in their own favorite moleskine notebook.