TargetTalk

aurorapolice02_11 wrote:I have stated this before...APs do not recoil. They push back a little, but the front sight does not flip up. If your technique is strong your sights will stay aligned when the shot breaks.

Wonder of wonders. I'm going to agree with you completely, Mike. That total lack of recoil was what I found so helpful about shooting AP. Finally, I got to see what my trigger pull and follow-through looked like, because if the gun moved, that had to be me. And because it made a hole in the paper, I actually got to check how I was calling the shot. I found it to be way more helpful than dry-firing and my BE scores began to reflect it.

Some people really argue that point. I will say that maybe a spring piston air gun might recoil, but not the more current guns. Of course the gun will move a little because of the projectile moving through it, but this does not necessarily mean there will be a rise in the muzzle of the gun.

It's amazing what movement a shooter subconciously adds to a gun.

Mike Douglass

Nicole Hamilton wrote:

aurorapolice02_11 wrote:I have stated this before...APs do not recoil. They push back a little, but the front sight does not flip up. If your technique is strong your sights will stay aligned when the shot breaks.

Wonder of wonders. I'm going to agree with you completely, Mike. That total lack of recoil was what I found so helpful about shooting AP. Finally, I got to see what my trigger pull and follow-through looked like, because if the gun moved, that had to be me. And because it made a hole in the paper, I actually got to check how I was calling the shot. I found it to be way more helpful than dry-firing and my BE scores began to reflect it.

Nicole, your total lack of recoil is probably due to it being an LP10. Have you tried a Morini?

Anonymous wrote:Have you tried a Morini?

No, sorry, I have not.

If you work hard enough with the Morini it won't jump either...

Mike Douglass

Interesting how a friday night brings out the postings.

I recently got an LP10 and was very pleased with how well I could see my follow through because of its limit barrel movement. I had dried fired the Morini 162E before I got the Styer and I thought its trigger was quite good. I ended up with the Styer primarliy because I liked the way it looked. (Please excuse my shallow asceticism.) I'm sure either would have suited me.

However, I remain interested in trigger differences.

I've shot quite a bit of rifle silhouette and always appreciated the value of a "crisp" trigger. Perhaps this has influence my appreciation for a crisp let off.

I haven't adjust the LP10 trigger since I got it a couple of months ago. Would someone let me know whether it's preset for a crisp or a rolling break. I'm curious whether I really able to appreciate the difference between the two.

Thanks,

Walt

Walt,
Just increase the sear engagement to get more of a roll. That's the screw with the red sealant on it. Try it, you might like it.

Fred

Walt G wrote:I haven't adjust the LP10 trigger since I got it a couple of months ago. Would someone let me know whether it's preset for a crisp or a rolling break.

I'd call it a roll trigger. (To me, it seems very much like the roll trigger in my Pardinis, which is another reason why it made such a great combination for me in training.)

I ended up with the [snip] primarliy because I liked the way it looked.

YESSSSS!!!!!!!

finally someone honest enough to state the REAL reason to buy a gun!!!

I've got a whole safe full of guns chosen for this very reason and a wishlist even longer :)

Poole

(now if I could just learn to shoot the dumb things!)

aurorapolice02_11 wrote:I have stated this before...APs do not recoil. They push back a little, but the front sight does not flip up. If your technique is strong your sights will stay aligned when the shot breaks. This can be done with an LP1!!!

Erich Buljung and I got into it once about recoil. He then had me shoot into the backstop and do it with a full tin of pellets. He said when the gun doesn't move as the shots breaks, then the technique is smooth.

Recoil absorbers are a gimmick. Don't believe me, shoot 500 shots into a backstop with a smooth trigger technique and see what the front sight does. If it moves, you did it, not the gun.

Mike Douglass

What do you mean by shoot into the backstop????

Just because you call the action "push back" does not mean its not the same action that people are using the term recoil to describe.

I too go for good looks in a gun - hence my purchase of an LP@ from Anschutz. I also have an LP50. It would be nice if Steyr could make the counterweights a bit more elegant and less fiddly.

you just shoot into a backstop. no target to look at. preferably a large back stop, not an airgun backstop because people will tend to pick a point on the small back stop and that defeats the purpose of this exercise.

any time i hear someone complain of recoil, it is in reference to a flip of the muzzle. it's unrealistic to think of shooting a gun with not bit of movement whatsoever. as i said, the gun should give a little pop back, but with today's guns there will be no muzzle flip.

Mike Douglass

The technique is called "Area Aiming", and it is a wonderful tool to work on sight picture and trigger control. As a combat firearms instructor for 14 years, I have used this drill with all my students and use it myself as well.
The easyist way is to turn the target backwards (the bulleye facing away from the shooter ). You will see errors in sight picture, trigger control and follow thru, much better. You will be amazed how precise you can group with the area aiming drill, when your technique is sound.
GORT

I have also done the back of the target method, but the backstop shooting worked much better. As I said you can still pinpoint with a small backstop, in this case the target, when area aiming.

It is true that you can work on many things using the back of a target. With the backstop though, you can really work on the trigger control and reduce that muzzle flip to nothing.

Mike Douglass

Another amazing thing one notices is how much improvement you suddenly notice on trigger control. That smooth, constantly moving trigger movement we all try to achieve is SO much easier to
accomplish when the mind isnt cluttered up with holding the aligned sights on a specific point on the target.

I go through this drill before every shooting session & match and sometimes at points in between. IT's a great way to burn into my mind how beautfiul it is to feel the hammer drop while the sights are
perfectly aligned.

I wasnt lucky enough to spend a great deal of time with Erich Buljung but I learned of this technique from a fellow TT poster by the name of Ed Hall who has written some fantastic articles on the subject.

http://www.starreloaders.com/edhall/

I should have added that this drill can be performed while dry firing mid match.