TargetTalk

It was easier and cheaper for me to set up Co2 bulk than to go for compressed air. Due to the nature of Co2, as compared to compressed air, you always have a constant pressure in the bulk tank (the physics are liquid to gas at a specific temperature and pressure).

For the practical purposes of target shooting, this will remain a constant while shooting until the tank is empty - not a reduction of pressure as shooting progresses.

There are alledged drawbacks of Co2 based on variables of pressure vs. temperature. However, to make a very long argument and story short; the ambient air temperature must change drastically to effect gas pressure, or the shooter must fire many quick consective shoots, before there will be a reduction in pressure - therefore velocity.

I use a K60 and bulk Co2. Life is great. If I won the lottery, I might purchase a new gun; that would be a Pardini K2 (Co2). The Styre/Anschutz is also available new in Co2, making it too a very viable choice.

I won't consider a change to compressed air for several reasons:
1. Before the tank is empty, it must be refilled.
2. The local dive shop is way to nosey about what "their" air is used for.
3. So far as safety, well...... Even a hand grenade is safe if you leave the pin in.
4. A 20# Co2 fill will last for over a year - even shooting a hundred shoots most days.
5. I'll be 60 this summer and don't want the strain (exercise?) of a hand pump.

Bill177,

you sound way to cautious in life and care to much what other people think. CA st is easy. So what if you have to "fill the tank before it is empty" who cares? CA is with out question eaiser. This is clear due to the fact that most people have switched over to CA. Duh. It costs me $6 to re-fill my tank. I find it very stange that the "local dive shop is way to nosy" BFD get over it find a shop that does not care. The shop I go to had me sign a note and they never ask any questions. They also support many paint ballers. A dive tank last a long time also. When I am 60 I would think that a little exercise would be a good thing to help keep the heart healthy and younger.

If you want to shoot CO2 that is fine I do not think anyone will tell you that you are wrong and need to switch. I think the only reason you should have for not switching is that you are happy with how your gun shoots and there is no compelling reason causing you to buy a new gun and switch. I hope I am still shooting when I am 60 and at that point I will have no reason to buy a new gun unless I decide that I need to spend all my money before I kick the bucket and not leave any for my kids.

I have a vari-comp to sell if any CO2 shooter wants it. I think that is how you spell it. It is a cylinder that mounts to an LP1 that I had converterd to CA right after I first bought it. the cylinder rotates down to move the center of gravity farther back and also helps keep the liquid at the bottom of the cylinder. I only used it once and the best offer can have it.

This is an answer to "Chris" and to "Bill .177"

Bill .177 you wrote:

"For the practical purposes of target shooting, this (the pressure) will remain a constant while shooting until the tank is empty - not a reduction of pressure as shooting progresses".

Yes and no. If your CO2 cylinder is full at the start of a competition, and the ambient temperature at the range does not change, and the gun is allowed to attain the room temperature before chooting commences, then the pressure remains constant. But if your cylinder was only partly full, say you have shot a training match with the gun the previous dag, and not topped it up, then the pressure could change.

This will happen before the tank is empty. It will happen when there is no more liquid CO2 left in the cylinder. There will still be a gas pressure inside, but this is then reduced shot by shot.

The problem is that it is not possible to detect when all liquid CO2 is gone inside the cylinder.
- - - - -

And to "Chris": I think you are right. You seem have a profound understanding of the topic.


Then, I think this will keep some of you thinking for a while:

Fill a clear plastic soft drink bottle half full of water, then put the cap back on. Stand by a table, and point the now half full bottle 45 degrees downwards, like you do with your pistol at the range.
Then bring your hand and the bottle up to horisontal, as in shooting. See how the surface wave of the water propagates to and fro, for several seconds. Can you feel the center of gravity shifting to and fro also?

Then think about what is going on inside a CO2 cylinder attached to a gun during a match. Got that?

In a compressed air cylinder there is no liquid!.

Good shootn´

This is for "Tiger" ......you are right in the fact that after the liquid CO2 is gone the pressure will drop with each shot. However, on my anschutz LP@
I get about 200 plus shots per full cylinder. It is very easy to either top it off or know how many shots I have taken. Once the liquid is gone you will only get another 10 to 15 shots at the most, so there is no excuse to get even close to the cylinder being that empty. As for the weight of the liquid sloshing around, I am willing to bet that 99 of 100 shooters if blindfolded and given one pistol each of CA and CO2 could not tell the difference. The whole point is that there are only a handfull of shooters in the world who will shoot better because of CA and even then we are only talking about a few points in score.
And for "Chris", maybe there a lot of dive shops where you live but in many parts of the country there are not. The closest to me is about 30 minuets and I think many others would have to travel a lot farther. There is no comparison in my area as to which is easier, cheaper, and safer, CO2 wins hands down. That does not mean I hate CA and will never own one, just that it is impractical for many of us.

Hi Chris

I don't think you get it. For many of us CO2 is just flat easier to use, easier to find when traveling etc. and in the real world there is virtually no difference in accuracy. Temperature sensitivity might exist but in my experience shooting from a low of 45 degrees (I'm in Alaska) to a high of 80 I have not experienced a point of impact shift in my sight settings.

I have nothing against Compressed Air and if you want to use it that is fine by me. I can shoot a bunch of C02 for the price of a $200 hand pump or a scuba set up. CO2 will remain my first choice followed by a Single Stroke Pnuematic (easy to use and inexpensive to boot) and then CA. You sound fairly young, when one lives in a small community what others think does matter, whether you understand that or not. You will find over time that life is better without the weight of chips on your shoulders. Shoot straight and have fun ;~)

Chris wrote:Bill177,

you sound way to cautious in life and care to much what other people think. CA st is easy. So what if you have to "fill the tank before it is empty" who cares? CA is with out question eaiser. This is clear due to the fact that most people have switched over to CA. Duh. It costs me $6 to re-fill my tank. I find it very stange that the "local dive shop is way to nosy" BFD get over it find a shop that does not care. The shop I go to had me sign a note and they never ask any questions. They also support many paint ballers. A dive tank last a long time also. When I am 60 I would think that a little exercise would be a good thing to help keep the heart healthy and younger.

If you want to shoot CO2 that is fine I do not think anyone will tell you that you are wrong and need to switch. I think the only reason you should have for not switching is that you are happy with how your gun shoots and there is no compelling reason causing you to buy a new gun and switch. I hope I am still shooting when I am 60 and at that point I will have no reason to buy a new gun unless I decide that I need to spend all my money before I kick the bucket and not leave any for my kids.

I have a vari-comp to sell if any CO2 shooter wants it. I think that is how you spell it. It is a cylinder that mounts to an LP1 that I had converterd to CA right after I first bought it. the cylinder rotates down to move the center of gravity farther back and also helps keep the liquid at the bottom of the cylinder. I only used it once and the best offer can have it.

Yepp, "aa2tn" you have a point there. Conserning safety, CO2 operates at lower pressures than CA. But CO2 cylinders have also ruptured from overfilling. (I know of one specific incident. Nobody was injured, but the ruptured cylinder left a dent in a wooden bench). Please take care when using CO2 too, folks.

Over 200 shots from one cylinderfill from your Anschûtz? At constant, and "normal" velocity? Sounds like a bit much to my ears. And only 10 til 15 shots from when all liquid CO2 is gone? Sounds like way to little. I think the number of shots after liquid is gone would be higher. But at which level would the "cut off" velocity limit has to be set?

And how did you determine when all liquid was gone? By using an extremely accurate chronograph? Or by removing and weighting the cylinder? The last option is cumbersome, but probably the only reliable one. But you also would have to calculate the weight of cylinder and gas at the ambient temperature, at the transition from 2 "faces" to one. And that is not directly straightforward.

But all in all, most match pistols, powered by CA or CO2, are plenty accurate for most of us.

Keep puncturing that x-ring.

Akihmsa,

I do get it. Bill was, IMHO making some weak excuses why he would not shoot CA. I was just pointing out that some of his arguments aginist CA do not hold AIR. haha. To me it does not really matter what anybody shoots and I said that. If you like to do all the things you need to do so you can shoot CO2 then by all means go right ahead. Many other people prefer CA. If you go to the national championships there are not many people shooting CO2. The CO2 tanks are lonley.

When I started shooting I started it was with a FWB65 and then moved to a FWB100. While I watched all the other people do what they had to with CO2. I remember one shooing a match on the range that was not heated very well. It was winter and the outside temp was near freezing. My friend was using a CO2 gun and had to keep his cylinder resting on a hand warmer to keep his cylinder warm enough so he could shoot.

I can understand that there may be problems finding either CA or CO2 depending where you live and if you live in a romote area and there are no dive shops around you will have trouble and may want to shoot CO2 since all you need is a welding shop. That makes a lot of sense to me and that could be eaiser for some people.

I have no chips on my sholders. I just do not understand why someone would be so concerned about what somebody might think about someone who owns a scuba tank and does not dive. If people lived their life caring about what other people thinks then we would all wear the same clothes, drive the same car and live in the same house.

What I care about is that more people get out and shoot and have fun doing it with what ever they can get their hand on and enjoy the sport.

Ditto to Chris. Get out and shoot! Enjoy! Let the competition be fierce but let there be comradreship between shooters regardless of person preference.
I'm not even going to tell anyone that I shoot a Co2 AP ;>)

Regards,
Southpaw