TargetTalk

That's interesting. I see many posts here saying the FWB 65 AP is undesirable due to its high sight plane. Hmm...

A low bore line means the pistol will rotate up less from recoil. The higher the bore line, the larger the 'torque" relative to the wrist, and the more sensitive the elevation of the shot will be to variations in grip pressure. The Russians had considerable success with a free pistol with the bore below the trigger until they made that illegal.

The FWB 65 is "recoilless", so it doesn't matter.

Rover wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:23 am That's interesting. I see many posts here saying the FWB 65 AP is undesirable due to its high sight plane. Hmm...

With a low barrel pistol you gain in stability but the point of impact on the target depends, severely, on how you grip the pistol, shot after shot.
Toz 35 has not this problem (it is not unforgiving) because its barrel is not so low. (I'm inclined to think that Morini (at Bedano) tried to improve the nervous (unforgiving?) CM84E by means of that two-stage trigger.)
Steyr LP1 & LP10 have (relatively) low barrel and are unforgiving. Of course there are many more factors to watch: weight, grip angle, trigger smooth or crisp, after travel, balance (nosy or regular), etc.

Gwhite wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:54 am A low bore line means the pistol will rotate up less from recoil. The higher the bore line, the larger the 'torque" relative to the wrist, and the more sensitive the elevation of the shot will be to variations in grip pressure. The Russians had considerable success with a free pistol with the bore below the trigger until they made that illegal.

Margolin made the rapid fire "Rekord" MTs 3-1
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-aRsurHAsEQs/T ... Rekord.jpg

Haemmerli--Walther made the Olympia in cal 22 short. This was interesting because the weapon actually was made of two pistols (the first one not firing but only triggering the trigger of the second pistol - firing upside-down.)

Mike M. wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:20 pm Vibration and motion of the lockwork on the shot release may have something to do with it. I've got a Morini, Toz, and a Steyr FP. The latter is interesting. There's a distinct "clunk" on the shot release. And the Steyr is notoriously unforgiving.

Oops, I’ve just bought one of those (Steyr) but haven’t taken delivery so have yet to form an opinion. I’d have thought that the location of the barrel axis would make it more forgiving. In all honesty, I’ve heard the same criticism from other sources. I have to admit to buying it out of sheer curiosity.

Bob

Gwhite wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:54 am The Russians had considerable success with a free pistol with the bore below the trigger until they made that illegal.

Hi Mr White,

I think you are confusing the Rekord rapid fire pistol (the "hacksaw"), which was an upside-down Margolin banned after the Melbourne Olympics, with Free Pistol where anything goes except: must be open sights, .22lr ammunition and restrictions on how far back the grip can come.

Bob

I was thinking of the Rekord (my mistake), but I thought they also have the restriction on the trigger location for free pistol as well. This site shows pictures of some pretty low bore line free pistols, but the trigger is not mounted above the bore.

http://www.shooting-ua.com/arm-books/arm_book_82.htm

BobGee wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:36 am

Mike M. wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:20 pm Vibration and motion of the lockwork on the shot release may have something to do with it. I've got a Morini, Toz, and a Steyr FP. The latter is interesting. There's a distinct "clunk" on the shot release. And the Steyr is notoriously unforgiving.

Oops, I’ve just bought one of those (Steyr) but haven’t taken delivery so have yet to form an opinion. I’d have thought that the location of the barrel axis would make it more forgiving. In all honesty, I’ve heard the same criticism from other sources. I have to admit to buying it out of sheer curiosity.
Bob

At that time ('90s) few top shooter (Kokorev, Eder, some more I don't remember his name) tried the Steyr FP, also in WC competition. The stability was great. unfortunately the score wasn't so great (unfogiveness? trigger action? barrel so low? chamber so distant?). So they all returned to their TOZ 35, next year.

Gwhite wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:19 pm ...I thought they also have the restriction on the trigger location for free pistol as well.

The only restriction on free pistol triggers, as with all other ISSF triggers, is that "the trigger is operated by the hand that holds the pistol".

Bob

BTW, isn't that Ukrainian Shooting Federation site a fantastic mine of information - especially if you like the Russian guns as I do.

http://www.shooting-ua.com/federations.htm

Bob

The more you shoot whatever you have the more forgiving it becomes...

I believe that usually it is due to the balance not being to the shooters liking or the grips do not fit properly. If either or both is the case, the shooter is struggling to some degree to keep the pistol lined up, pushing it one way or the other. When it goes off, it depends on the degree of pushing or pulling that is going on at that very moment. Consequently, the shot location is difficult to call and inconsistent. Once this thought of being unforgiving has been entered into the shooters mind, it gets even worse.