Noise in the World Cup Finals

[higginsdj]

The ONLY concern with the level of noise on the range is whether or not the RO can be heard.

cheers

David

[Andre]

It's not so much noise that bothers me it's the stomping. On a concrete floor, it's fine. But I shot in an air pistol final at the OTC, and it was on the second floor, that actually hanging and not supported from below so it bounces. You really had to time your shots in that final.

[jhmartin]

It's not so much noise that bothers me it's the stomping. On a concrete floor, it's fine. But I shot in an air pistol final at the OTC, and it was on the second floor, that actually hanging and not supported from below so it bounces. You really had to time your shots in that final.

OTC, upper floor, it is inappropriate as the floor does bounce, and not all locations the same.
CRO should have explained that ... Have Sergey not it to the CRO next time you are there.

Now the bottom floor, cheer on!

[RobStubbs]

It's not so much noise that bothers me it's the stomping. On a concrete floor, it's fine. But I shot in an air pistol final at the OTC, and it was on the second floor, that actually hanging and not supported from below so it bounces. You really had to time your shots in that final.

That's a different argument. With a floor that moves (like our LRC), stamping etc should not be allowed.

Rob.

[Bob Smalser]

Back during the Cold War, a favorite exercise was taking my service rifle and pistol teams to rural German Gasthauses featuring evening air rifle and pistol competitions. Slow-moving bullets requiring precise position and follow-through. combined with lotsa good-natured noise was a perfect recipe for putting overconfident young hot-shots in their place. ;)

[Bob-Riegl]

Sorry about all of you sympathizers----loud and raucous behavior is a true sign of the of overall ignorance and boorish behavior of our "European" audiences. Noise is a disturbance to me as well as most shooters, mebbe I am talking like a true "ugly american, so what---ya wanna fight about it. I appreciate the call for us ugly-americans to be quiet and yes "SHUSH" (you pie hole), when the line is actively shooting, it's a sign of respect not the "European Disrespect" & boorishishness. And btw the you tubes of the finals of FP, AP and RF show the crowds to be respectively quiet. Your not at a football (soccer) game but a precision event with highly skilled and talented athletes using their firearms in a diligent pursuit of accuracy & excellence. The Crochety Ole Coach

[David Levene]

And btw the you tubes of the finals of FP, AP and RF show the crowds to be respectively quiet.

....until you get to the last few shots for the medals. The ISSF commentary microphones don't pick up the full noise.

It seems to happen less for RFP where you only have one shooter firing at a time.

[jhmartin]

Crotchety Old Coach:

So I'm guessing you will continue to train your charges in library like conditions?

What happens when they move out of your sterile lab like range and move to the US Nationals, or heaven forbid, a World Cup or Junior event in one of those places where the Europeans (in your opinion) exhibit ignorant and boorish behavior?

Like it or not, the sport has changed ... the qualifiers are different, and the Final is a totally separate event. Our US shooters must also be able to perform there.

As an aside, as an RO I'm not sure what counts as a distraction anymore. If a shooter is talking to themselves on the line, loudly ... is that a distraction? How is that different than someone behind that shooter talking loudly?

[redschietti]

Not sure he is right, but one match organizer around here says that would be coaching. (talking at line)

[jhmartin]

Not sure he is right, but one match organizer around here says that would be coaching. (talking at line)

Talking to another shooter ... Yes that is coaching. What about talking to themselves?

[redschietti]

Maybe I'll have eliz bring her cow bell to the line at WAG! That the progression of the logic...

[jhmartin]

the progression of the logic...

See my new topic....

[justadude]

as jhmartin has said.. "the game has changed"

I have had the time to watch numerous finals from Granada, not just the Junior Men's Prone as was the topic in the OP. This was not the only final where someone with a stadium horn was sitting the gallery bleating away. Perhaps it was more noticeable in this final compared to others, or as the event went on they changed the setup on Hilary Russel's microphone so noise from the gallery would be less apparent.

Having been on both sides of the situation, in the gallery and on the line during a final, I have two thoughts: From the gallery side it does make it more fun, you can talk to the spectator next to you, clap and cheer (loudly) when someone shoots a 10.9. I do avoid shouting specific names, especially when shooters are trying to deliver a shot as that is kind of like piercing someone's concentration with a dagger. I know I would be annoyed if someone shouted my name while I was down on the sights, preparing to release a shot.

From the shooters perspective, this is different, takes some getting used to but am learning to ignore it. I prefer the larger crowd where the noise is just a din, no one specific voice that your ears can pick up and your brain start to derail from the task at hand to decipher. Having some level of noise does help blot out any one specific sound, either a voice, dropped object or whatever from being so noticeable.

Like it or not, I expect this way of doing things is here to stay. Kind of like decimal scoring, when first introduced I was not crazy about it. Two years on, I like the additional challenge of always fighting for more tenths. 654 being a perfect score?... well that can be a little hard to explain, but that is another topic.

Cheers,
'Dude

[Bob-Riegl]

jhmartin, yes I do train my shooters with the range quiet, no shouting, talking, no coaching during a Match. Training periods are exempt to the high noise level of a whisper, while it is not a library silence, but a quiet scene. If you wish to accept the boorish noise of dilettantes in Europe then enjoy, how much of that noise is coaching? No dual match or larger matches on the NCAA level tolerate NOISE. And that's the way it should be. Final words....IMHO...."COC"

[jhmartin]

No dual match or larger matches on the NCAA level tolerate NOISE.

I think this is not a no tolerance "rule", but a condition of the ranges themselves ... hard to find an NCAA range that will take both shooters and spectators -->in the same room<--. Most have separate spectator areas behind glass.

At NCAAs last year ...
smallbore-spectators in a totally different building with match piped into and onto the large CMP monitors. Noise - who cares?
air-were indeed run by the new international rules with Lones making comments over the announcement system and polite respectful noise from the crowd.

I don't want to seem to be wanting/condoning uncontrolled behavior. Horns, cowbells, stomping on the stands, yelling our names -- I agree are distasteful (now ... Matt with his duck calls at USAS matchesWAS funny) .... cheering and clapping are fine. However - what I like/what I would want - well, I ain't King of the World, and the semi-riotous behavior is there - and the shooters do have to deal with it. I'm just waiting for the day someone comes in painted up like they do in the football games.

Final words....IMHO...."COC"

OK, I'll admit I'm ignorant. "COC" has no meaning to me.... :)

[redschietti]

Ive only trained one shooter. Im not a shooter and knew nothing at the start about shooting, but a lot about sport. From the get go, I felt that the quiet was ridiculous, and we trained under intense distraction and harassment and pressure. Coincidence that she made the Jr team at 16 and has shot multiple matches overseas??

[Marc Orvin]

Final words....IMHO...."COC"

OK, I'll admit I'm ignorant. "COC" has no meaning to me.... :)[/quote]

Crotchety Old Coach from previous post.

[David Levene]

It seems quite simple to me.

If your aspirations are only far as matches that will be shot on silent ranges, then train on silent ranges.

If however your aspirations are to shoot at the highest level internationally then you need to understand that there will be noise, especially in a final. Common sense says that you should train in suitable conditions.

[grmdaddyo]

I love this topic. I've been at this game for 40+ years. I love the atmosphere I've seen at the finals. A quiet range is great. But single, specific, individual sounds can be distracting, but as previously noted, a "din" can be worked with. ALL shooters are under the same conditions, so what's the big deal.

I've always laughed with friends and family watching Golf, Tennis....Shooting.... Shhhhhh, be quiet.... hush.... as the player concentrates to putt/drive that little ball down the range or in the hole...... or Shhhhh...must be quiet as the player tosses up his rubber ball to strike it across the court. Can't be distracted

On the other hand... the batter is standing in the batters box, 40,000 people cheering or geering him, the pitchers throwing that leather ball 95 mph, and he has 1/10th of a second to decide to hit it, let it go by, or get the hell out of the way so he doesn't loose his ear/nose/brain.... How about the quarterback, dropping back to pass, 5 - 350lb gorillas preparing to flatten him into the turf, while deciding which of his 5 receivers is going to be open or analyze a lane to escape, while 75,000 fans cheer/geer him on...

All of a sudden, overcoming little noise when we're shooting at a piece of paper or electronic target just doesn't seem so challenging.

Just MHO

Cheeers
GRM

[xnoncents]

I just watched the ISSF video too, and was initially really put off by the noise, but then I wasn't there either, nor was I competing so I really didn't know how to judge. At my home range they allow shotgun shooters, and black powder rifles right along side the small bore shooters because there is only one 50 yd range, and no dedicated small bore time slots. At first it was a real concentration breaker, but eventually I took this as a mental challenge to up my concentration game. Mostly it worked, but I still have moments when a twelve gauge pressure wave next to me causes a flinch if it happens perfectly during my trigger release cycle. Worse is when it's an auto-loader and it chucks a hot one on your prone position. (No kind of hearing protection helps with that). Just prior to the start of hunting season (now) you will get three or four shotgunners at a time, and I basically give up for three weeks and wait them out.

I find it very interesting that several serious competitors either consider the noise a plus or completely discount it. I figure if you aren't competing on the firing line you probably are not in a position to judge.