TargetTalk

Muffo wrote:Fair enough. A very odd rule tho that doesnt really fit in with the sporting world in general

I don't think that it's odd... It's just a way to ensure that the standards are keeped.
You can look at a club match and a country's national championship for reference. At the national championship the standards are usually "tighter", the referees/jury's are "stricter", and the rules are way less "flexible".

rmca wrote:

Muffo wrote:Fair enough. A very odd rule tho that doesnt really fit in with the sporting world in general

I don't think that it's odd... It's just a way to ensure that the standards are keeped.
You can look at a club match and a country's national championship for reference. At the national championship the standards are usually "tighter", the referees/jury's are "stricter", and the rules are way less "flexible".

Yes exactly. Once you get to a national level comp the rules and regulations are followed to the t. Thats why it seems very strange to me. It is an event that is being run by international level judges. Usually the same ones that run world cups ect. It should be any national level or higher event at which a certain level judge is in attendance. A world record is ment to be the highest score shot or the fastest time ran or the highest bar jumped or the fastest time ran that has ever occurred in the world that is verified by an international judge. This is not the case in shooting

Muffo wrote:Thats interesting, does anyone know why Skanakers national record of 583 didnt stand as a world record then

Also, I seem to vaguely remember that in the early 90's a Hammerli-sponsored shooter (my memory suggets me he was a Chinese, but I may be wrong) shot a 583 at a match held in Hiroshima, and it wasn't taken as a WR for the same reason "rcma" stated.

Someone could help with this one, just for the sake of it? Anyone else remembers the same or is it a mind game of my own?

Muffo wrote:

rmca wrote:

Muffo wrote:Fair enough. A very odd rule tho that doesnt really fit in with the sporting world in general

I don't think that it's odd... It's just a way to ensure that the standards are keeped.
You can look at a club match and a country's national championship for reference. At the national championship the standards are usually "tighter", the referees/jury's are "stricter", and the rules are way less "flexible".

Yes exactly. Once you get to a national level comp the rules and regulations are followed to the t. Thats why it seems very strange to me. It is an event that is being run by international level judges. Usually the same ones that run world cups ect. It should be any national level or higher event at which a certain level judge is in attendance. A world record is ment to be the highest score shot or the fastest time ran or the highest bar jumped or the fastest time ran that has ever occurred in the world that is verified by an international judge. This is not the case in shooting

In some countries, MAYBE. In a lot of others, no they aren't.

WCH, OG and WC judges are a handful in the long list of ISSF.

There are a lot of other sports where the same practice is applied.

Muffo wrote:Yes exactly. Once you get to a national level comp the rules and regulations are followed to the t. Thats why it seems very strange to me. It is an event that is being run by international level judges. Usually the same ones that run world cups ect. It should be any national level or higher event at which a certain level judge is in attendance.

As renzo also wrote, there are many countries were the national championships don't have international level judges. Not to mention the shooting facilities. How many ranges do you know that are capable of having a major international match? Certainly not one in every country... unfortunately!

This way, although it isn't perfect, you get a certain level of circumstances that are common to all records.

rmca wrote:

Muffo wrote:Yes exactly. Once you get to a national level comp the rules and regulations are followed to the t. Thats why it seems very strange to me. It is an event that is being run by international level judges. Usually the same ones that run world cups ect. It should be any national level or higher event at which a certain level judge is in attendance.

As renzo also wrote, there are many countries were the national championships don't have international level judges. Not to mention the shooting facilities. How many ranges do you know that are capable of having a major international match? Certainly not one in every country... unfortunately!

This way, although it isn't perfect, you get a certain level of circumstances that are common to all records.

Not all the ranges will be up to scratch and if the range isn't up to scratch then it shouldn't count. If the score is shot on a range that is up to scratch then it should count

There is one final thing... the pressure of shooting in an international match.
It's not the same, "just" shooting against your fellow countryman...

rmca wrote:There is one final thing... the pressure of shooting in an international match.
It's not the same, "just" shooting against your fellow countryman...

I bet it is when your trying to shoot a world record

I see Jin's fluked it again; AP60 World Champion.

I know that I normally say that when you're shooting well, it's easy to shoot well, but this guy's abusing it.

Nobody's entitled to shoot this well, as consistently, as he is at the moment.

It's a Korean thing, Indomitable spirit / Baek-jeol-bul-gul.

The match that Skanaker shot his 583 was at the 1984 Olympic range in CA and it was a "Grand Prix" match...which I don't really know what that means but the conditions of the match did not qualify it for a new WR. Anyway, I was shooting next to him that day, with him being on my left. Too bad that absolutely none of his abilities oozed over to my point. I recalled that he was on and off the line the entire match, shooting a string or so then exiting to rest of talk to someone. He was an amazing shooter.

Bringing up another point from an old post...sort of "I told you so" which I find distasteful on my part but in this instance I can't help myself. On this forum months ago, a poster stated that a top 3 gun pistol shooter had claimed that no trigger control was necessary when shooting free pistol due to the light release of the trigger. I disagreed with the poster on this issue but he was unconvinced. The fact that Jin shot 2 8's during his match proves that his sights are moving, everybody knows this as no one is perfectly steady, duh. So, my point being to the "no free pistol trigger control needed" poster...if Jin's trigger release timing (trigger control) had been better on those shots causing the shot to be released when his movement was closer to the center, he would have scored a 9 or 10. I can only wish that during my free pistol shooting days that failed trigger control might have produced nothing worse than an occassional 8. I am sure that when Jin produced those 2 8's that he was not thinking about the impact it would have on his final score but rather he continued on with his subconscious being the driving force.

David Levene wrote:I see Jin's fluked it again; AP60 World Champion.

I know that I normally say that when you're shooting well, it's easy to shoot well, but this guy's abusing it.

Nobody's entitled to shoot this well, as consistently, as he is at the moment.

Nuts to that :)

When you're shooting well, keep it going as long and as high as you can.

He just happens to be doing it longer and higher than anyone I can recall.

john bickar wrote:

David Levene wrote:I see Jin's fluked it again; AP60 World Champion.

I know that I normally say that when you're shooting well, it's easy to shoot well, but this guy's abusing it.

Nobody's entitled to shoot this well, as consistently, as he is at the moment.

Nuts to that :)

When you're shooting well, keep it going as long and as high as you can.

He just happens to be doing it longer and higher than anyone I can recall.

John, thanks for the reminder that we've seen "the end of the age of irony."

Hm, yeah, maybe I should recalibrate my sarcasmometer.

BEA wrote:The match that Skanaker shot his 583 was at the 1984 Olympic range in CA and it was a "Grand Prix" match...which I don't really know what that means but the conditions of the match did not qualify it for a new WR. Anyway, I was shooting next to him that day, with him being on my left. Too bad that absolutely none of his abilities oozed over to my point. I recalled that he was on and off the line the entire match, shooting a string or so then exiting to rest of talk to someone. He was an amazing shooter.

Bringing up another point from an old post...sort of "I told you so" which I find distasteful on my part but in this instance I can't help myself. On this forum months ago, a poster stated that a top 3 gun pistol shooter had claimed that no trigger control was necessary when shooting free pistol due to the light release of the trigger. I disagreed with the poster on this issue but he was unconvinced. The fact that Jin shot 2 8's during his match proves that his sights are moving, everybody knows this as no one is perfectly steady, duh. So, my point being to the "no free pistol trigger control needed" poster...if Jin's trigger release timing (trigger control) had been better on those shots causing the shot to be released when his movement was closer to the center, he would have scored a 9 or 10. I can only wish that during my free pistol shooting days that failed trigger control might have produced nothing worse than an occassional 8. I am sure that when Jin produced those 2 8's that he was not thinking about the impact it would have on his final score but rather he continued on with his subconscious being the driving force.

another point to back that up. One year the Russians turned up with an electronic trigger system that was controlled by their non shooting hand. From memory they filled all the top spots and I think had more than one person well above the world record but it was disallowed and the introduced the rule that the trigger must be pulled by the shooting hand.
This is just what I have been told so how exact the facts are I don't know

Muffo wrote:...One year the Russians turned up with an electronic trigger system that was controlled by their non shooting hand...

Yes, there were 'electronics' in those days, but I think it was a Bowden cable setup.

I was told by a high level international shooter a long time ago that it was thought that the Russian record was set with a pocket release. I was in Germany years ago and visited the Walther factory. There was a free pistol in a display case with a long wire on it with a small box with a button on the end. This was obviously a pocket release set up. It seems to me that it would take a lot of practice to get used to this type of trigger.

I think it would be very easy. I can hold it so much stiller without pressing the trigger. Cable or electric wouldn't really matter ut the advantage was clearly there

Cool beans. Morini updated their website. Good on ya!

http://www.morini.ch/

Sa-tevo wrote:Cool beans. Morini updated their website. Good on ya!

http://www.morini.ch/

They are even kind enough to include a pic of Korostylov with his Toz...