TargetTalk

Gerard wrote:I rather doubt it. Any SSP I've heard of just sucks some moisture in at the front of the stroke. There's no filter, no way to block the moisture which is in the air. Besides this obviously the FWB 65 is not an SSP; it's a spring-piston air pistol.

Gerard,
My mistake. I was under the impression model was a SSP. Thanks for the correction.
-s

No worries, just keeping the facts straight. An SSP version of the FWB 65 would be neat. I don't know of any side lever SSP pistols but it would seem like a good idea.

I have a vague memory of some kind of FAS or Domino sidecocker SSP.

Air Match model 400 and 600

and of course the Daisy 717/747!

j-team wrote:Air Match model 400 and 600

and of course the Daisy 717/747!

I had assumed the Daisy pistols were springers. Silly me. Still, D&L who sell them both list them at 360fps. Rather dismally slow for punching holes in paper. I held a 747 this spring bit didn't shoot it. Was impressed by the cheapness and the very heavy weight.

I'd not heard of the Italian Air Match pistols. Interesting report on a 600 here:
http://anotherairgunblog.blogspot.ca/20 ... e.html?m=1
Again rather slow at just 380fps but a nicely made pistol, rather like an FAS 604 in some ways.

The 717/747/777 family of air pistols are vastly underrated. the trigger is primitive but crisp, the gun is a bit nose heavy, but I like that. The loading process forces you to be slow and deliberate, a good thing... Now I wont turn down a steyr, but I just cant see spending a bunch of money for a better gun that might only be a little bit better in my hands,,,,

Gerard wrote:I'd not heard of the Italian Air Match pistols. Interesting report on a 600 here:
http://anotherairgunblog.blogspot.ca/20 ... e.html?m=1
Again rather slow at just 380fps but a nicely made pistol, rather like an FAS 604 in some ways.

I had both Air Match 600 and FAS 604 in my younger days. Air Match was a better pistol, fantastic trigger but some parts were prone to breakage.

Air Match also made a Free Pistol, they are quite rare but you can see that the Morini CM80 evolved from it.

Gerard wrote:I don't know of any side lever SSP pistols but it would seem like a good idea.

If the SSP airpistol was shooting around 500 fps + or -, (like the IZH46M, FWB 103, or Walther LPM-1) it would be a very bad idea because the side levers require more effort to cock than the under levers.

I see. Introducing a compound link, a sort of variation on the later (post-war) Webley spring-piston pistols such as the Senior, might allow a longer lever throw without increasing the force required for the compression stroke, but the practical limitations would probably keep any velocity increase to something rather modest. With the Webley pistols the added cocking linkage increased the maximum lever (barrel as cocking lever in these cases) angle from the earlier 124 degrees to 167 degrees, enabling use of a longer cylinder and spring and increasing velocity an average of between 15% and 40% depending on calibre and other variables in the designs. I'd expect a similar increase with an SSP using a longer stroke. The Baikal 46m uses something sort of similar, lengthening the stroke by a compound linkage, but the lever could go still slightly further without increasing effort to close it.

But perhaps the biggest problem with side-lever SSPs is more ergonomic in the sense that the grip angle relative to the lever location means one is trying to pull the pistol out of the hand while cocking? My own lack of experience talking here, as I've never operated a side-lever SSP or side-lever springer.

Again rather slow at just 380fps but a nicely made pistol

Well, the Air Match 600 evolved into the Morini Air Match 800E, which is one of the fastest SSPs around, close to 170 m/sec, with an ingenious "double-geared" (don't know the english expression for it) sidelever.

Interesting. I can't find a single image of an 800E but it sounds like an impressive addition to the list of 'antique' SSP pistols I'll have to keep an eye open for.

Tycho wrote:

Again rather slow at just 380fps but a nicely made pistol

Well, the Air Match 600 evolved into the Morini Air Match 800E, which is one of the fastest SSPs around, close to 170 m/sec, with an ingenious "double-geared" (don't know the english expression for it) sidelever.

I'am just as curious as Gerard, was this Morini Air Match 800E an actual production pistol or was it just a prototype and can you please provide us with a picture? The "double-geared" term that you are referring to is probably a "double sliding pivot" sidelever mechanism.

There was an actual serial production, I've seen several (not many, but several) of them over the years. There was a CM1000E, too, with CO2. You can also find it mentioned in the list of grips made by Morini, at least until a few years back.

Will follow up with pic as soon as I'm home.

Trigger is not original (FWB), but otherwise complete, and working.

Does the "E" mean it has an electronic trigger?

Yup. Basically the same as the early 102E.

2 rare electronic trigger APs:

http://www.heikkitaipalusky.fi/pdf/Ilma-aseet.pdf

Thanks Tycho. The Morini CM800E looks like a sweet pistol, definitely something to watch for in case one crops up for sale some day. I can see it making my club's RO nervous with the shooter's left hand sweeping in front of the barrel, as he's dead set against any muzzle pointing at anyone no matter that it's an over-lever SSP where the barrel is the lever or whatever the excuse. But plainly one can't shoot one's self in the hand while the cocking lever is in front of the muzzle, and more importantly I like it!

By the way, 'close to 170 m/sec' means roughly 550fps... which would make it illegal in Canada without a firearms license. Hm.

I don't think you'll get 550fps out of ANY SSP (pistol). You WILL get over 500fps out of the FWB 100 series with light pellets.

Well, when my Chrony 625 says "169.5 m/sec", that seems a pretty clear opinion to me... but yes, with light pellets, of course.