New Pardini 32 ACP
Moderators: pilkguns, m1963, Isabel1130
I haven't tried Quality Cast from Ohio but have tried Speer and Dardas which can be bought in .314 also The Dardas were better than the speer but not as good as H&N. My cast 100 grain Saeco's are just as good as the H&N and happen to hit in the exact same place with the same load. I once shot a 20 shot group at 50 yds and thought it was all with H&N bullets and was impressed with the 2 inch group. Later I caught on that it was 10 Saeco and 10 H&N. I never tried it again to see if one was better than the other because at that point I didn't care. This caliber is so persnickety though we have to be careful about praising one bullet and lambasting another until it is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt which is better. If I were to make an educated guess, I would suggest to start with an H&N .314 with a .314 or .3145 expander.
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Trooperjake
- Posts: 794
- Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2010 9:22 pm
- Location: Cookeville, TN
I forgot to mention I get the best groups at 50 yds with h&n, but I have been using Magnus at 25 yards. I had ordered 200 Dardes, but they came in at .312, and I need .314.
The best looking bullets are Dardes. I plan on trying his .314.
The worst results I got was with the Hornady wadcutter.
I use VVn310 with a load of 1.4 gr. And CCI primers and a .314 expander.
I just find the Hornady and H & N to be too messy, they gum up my dies too fast. One problem I have is when I shoot rapids indoors, I am in a cloud of smoke.
The best looking bullets are Dardes. I plan on trying his .314.
The worst results I got was with the Hornady wadcutter.
I use VVn310 with a load of 1.4 gr. And CCI primers and a .314 expander.
I just find the Hornady and H & N to be too messy, they gum up my dies too fast. One problem I have is when I shoot rapids indoors, I am in a cloud of smoke.
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Trooperjake
- Posts: 794
- Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2010 9:22 pm
- Location: Cookeville, TN
Old caster
I used to cast when I shot Shuetzen (32 miller) and long range black powder. I also cast for my 30-30 and 308 win.
I miss shooting my 40-65 Browning high Wall. No place where I am now.
I never shot pistol in those days.
I quit when I could no longer get good lead from a smelter at a good cost.
When I lived in NY we had a shop that made lead for us with the proportions we wanted, at a reasonable price. We would place an order of thousands of pounds of lead. My wife would kill me if I started casting again.
I used to cast when I shot Shuetzen (32 miller) and long range black powder. I also cast for my 30-30 and 308 win.
I miss shooting my 40-65 Browning high Wall. No place where I am now.
I never shot pistol in those days.
I quit when I could no longer get good lead from a smelter at a good cost.
When I lived in NY we had a shop that made lead for us with the proportions we wanted, at a reasonable price. We would place an order of thousands of pounds of lead. My wife would kill me if I started casting again.
OK, I blinked. It will probably be here in 3 or 4 days. I am going to wade in rather slowly because from what I have read, brass can vary a lot from one manufacturer to another and I don't want to buy a K of brass only to find out it was the wrong brand. I already have a Lyman 32 round nose mold that I think is 85 grain so that will be first. I was also looking at Accurates molds and was intrigued that they had one with a gas check. Didn't even know there was a 32 check. They might be using 8mm -- .323 and swaging them down. If this is in the picture I might have to start making my own checks. A guy called Pat Marlin has check makers that I understand work pretty well. I am getting ahead of myself though because I still don't have the gun, the Dillon shellplate, or the brass. I guess I got tired of waiting for someone else to take the plunge. If my scores go up and I continually give a bad report on this gun you all will know I am lying. -- Bill -
Cast Bullets and the 32 ACP Pardini
Greetings,
Be sure to "slug" the barrel of your pistol to determine the groove diameter. With the PardiniUSA 32 ACP I believe you will find it to measure 0.314".
Using a gas check adds more money; but, I have never tested a bullet with one so please post your results.
You will want the 30 caliber gas check which works for bullets 0.308"-0.314".
The Hornady 60 grain 0.312" XTP bullet does work well. While a bit pricey, it could be reserved for 50 yard use only.
Cheers,
Dave
Be sure to "slug" the barrel of your pistol to determine the groove diameter. With the PardiniUSA 32 ACP I believe you will find it to measure 0.314".
Using a gas check adds more money; but, I have never tested a bullet with one so please post your results.
You will want the 30 caliber gas check which works for bullets 0.308"-0.314".
The Hornady 60 grain 0.312" XTP bullet does work well. While a bit pricey, it could be reserved for 50 yard use only.
Cheers,
Dave
Dave, those were pretty much my thoughts also. My biggest concern is that the barrel will be so big (.314) that I will have problems making the brass big enough and not have chambering difficulties or ruining the brass. That is why the gas check sounded interesting. I have thought about using the jacketed bullets for only 50 yards but you are right, they are expensive for what they are. I haven't really found any others that are any cheaper. A gas check maker is about $75 and material for it is very cheap. As it stands now I don't even know if a check would be a good idea but will probably find out and will post what I find. -- Bill --
Well, I finally got the 32 ACP and at least got around to shooting it. Mostly I shot it with what I considered would be reduced loads except for the Unique load and the Hornady load with Clays. I needed to try just 5 bullets to a load so as to not get stuck with pulling a bunch of bullets just because they were so weak that they hardly got out of the barrel but at least have an idea what to try. In books I didn’t find much in the way of loads for lead bullets, especially 85 grain which is the only mold I have. One went faster than they were supposed to and one went slower but when the experimentation is in such a small case one has to be careful plus, how many kinds of different pistols were these loads worked up in over the years. I didn’t worry about accuracy too much since that will come later and 5 shots at a time can only tell you if the load is awful and not whether it is good. I was pleasantly surprised that most of the loads shot off the bench with a red dot went into about 2 and a half inches at 50 yards and only one was pitiful at around 6 inches. All of the bullets shot were the Lyman 85 grain 313249 with 10 rounds that were 60 grain Hornady jacketed.
Powder & amount Average speed Extreme spread Bullet
2g Unique 883 130 85 lead
2g Unique 844 58 85 lead w/gas check
1.2g Accurate #2 642 50 85 lead
1.4 g #2 684 8 85 lead
1.2 g Win 231 607 41 85 lead
1.2g Russian Salute 620 118 85 lead
1.4 g Clays 681 88 60 grain Hornady jacketed
The 2 grains of Unique shouldn’t have gone that fast according to the manual and the 60 grain jacketed should have gone faster which is exactly why I am starting so carefully. I don’t trust any loading data and learned that from messing with the 32 long. I don’t have a lot of confidence in the Lyman bullet just because the mold isn’t quality and it drops the bullets at .313 which is as it should but I would rather have .314, I think. I sized and lubed them at .313 and put a gas check on 5 of them with the lathe just to see what the outcome would be. They are a bit slower and the accuracy was identical as without but with 5 rounds of each fired I don’t want to make any claims about any of this except the average speeds so far. As it stands, I doubt a GC is necessary but will keep it in mind if my next results are not good. The jacketed were worse but maybe they were too slow. Another anomaly is that the 1.4 load with the good ES was the worse group of the bunch and the one with the 130 was the best.
Also, I used my 314 expander that I made for the long and I pushed it in about the length that the bullet sets in the brass. It won’t put a flair on the brass that way and it was a pain but I don’t want to spend the time to make another until I have an idea of what size I want to make it. At first I was worried about expanding the brass that much thinking it might not chamber or put a bulge or fold in the brass. I even wanted to start with Remington brass because I heard it was larger but could only find Magtech. The Hornady bullets went in too easily and if I was going to only shoot them I think I would back off to .312 or maybe even .311. The 313’s will go in about 1/3 of the way with just finger pressure.
Next I will try some more loads trying to get them about 7 to 750fps. If that doesn’t work, I will probably get either an RCBS mold that is smaller in weight, but .314, plus I am sure better quality or a custom mold from somebody. I like quality molds but also understand that design when it comes to accuracy is more important than mold quality (as long as it isn’t pure junk) and you really don’t know until you try. So far, every load was weighed and I doubt if the Unique could be any way except weighed. The #2 is the easiest to drop accurately.
Powder & amount Average speed Extreme spread Bullet
2g Unique 883 130 85 lead
2g Unique 844 58 85 lead w/gas check
1.2g Accurate #2 642 50 85 lead
1.4 g #2 684 8 85 lead
1.2 g Win 231 607 41 85 lead
1.2g Russian Salute 620 118 85 lead
1.4 g Clays 681 88 60 grain Hornady jacketed
The 2 grains of Unique shouldn’t have gone that fast according to the manual and the 60 grain jacketed should have gone faster which is exactly why I am starting so carefully. I don’t trust any loading data and learned that from messing with the 32 long. I don’t have a lot of confidence in the Lyman bullet just because the mold isn’t quality and it drops the bullets at .313 which is as it should but I would rather have .314, I think. I sized and lubed them at .313 and put a gas check on 5 of them with the lathe just to see what the outcome would be. They are a bit slower and the accuracy was identical as without but with 5 rounds of each fired I don’t want to make any claims about any of this except the average speeds so far. As it stands, I doubt a GC is necessary but will keep it in mind if my next results are not good. The jacketed were worse but maybe they were too slow. Another anomaly is that the 1.4 load with the good ES was the worse group of the bunch and the one with the 130 was the best.
Also, I used my 314 expander that I made for the long and I pushed it in about the length that the bullet sets in the brass. It won’t put a flair on the brass that way and it was a pain but I don’t want to spend the time to make another until I have an idea of what size I want to make it. At first I was worried about expanding the brass that much thinking it might not chamber or put a bulge or fold in the brass. I even wanted to start with Remington brass because I heard it was larger but could only find Magtech. The Hornady bullets went in too easily and if I was going to only shoot them I think I would back off to .312 or maybe even .311. The 313’s will go in about 1/3 of the way with just finger pressure.
Next I will try some more loads trying to get them about 7 to 750fps. If that doesn’t work, I will probably get either an RCBS mold that is smaller in weight, but .314, plus I am sure better quality or a custom mold from somebody. I like quality molds but also understand that design when it comes to accuracy is more important than mold quality (as long as it isn’t pure junk) and you really don’t know until you try. So far, every load was weighed and I doubt if the Unique could be any way except weighed. The #2 is the easiest to drop accurately.
32 ACP Moulds
Greetings,
Many thanks for the detailed testing results.
Personally, I just purchased an RCBS 32-77-RN mould for testing 32 ACP. I have not had time to cast; but, I did measure the cavities and they gauge at 0.315".
I suspect a cast bullet will end up 0.313", hopefully 0.314" as the diameter of the barrels I have seen measure 0.314" groove diameter.
Cheers,
Dave
Many thanks for the detailed testing results.
Personally, I just purchased an RCBS 32-77-RN mould for testing 32 ACP. I have not had time to cast; but, I did measure the cavities and they gauge at 0.315".
I suspect a cast bullet will end up 0.313", hopefully 0.314" as the diameter of the barrels I have seen measure 0.314" groove diameter.
Cheers,
Dave
Post whatever size they happen to come out. I didn't slug the barrel of my Pardini because there really was no point. I was going to try the Lyman bullets anyway and then go to the RCBS if they weren't any good. I also thought about an Accurate mold because I can get them whatever size I want them. I don't think his machinery can make a round nose so I am not yet sure what to ask for. I was thinking of taking the measurements of an H&G 68 45 bullet and reducing all the dimensions to 32 since it has always been an accurate design. One thing to note is that I didn't experience any tipping at all in some 40 bulets. Another thing I forgot is to try some Power Pistol loads and will get them next time. If I happen to get really good results with the Lyman mold, I will get in touch with you and send some however I have a lot more faith in the RCBS you are getting. If only they made 4 cavity.
I think it is wise to make your bullets exactly to size or just a tiny bit larger than bore size. A lot of times, people swage their cast bullets down when the brass is too small not even realizing that this is the case. Then there is a tendancy to use larger and larger bullets instead of expanding the case to the proper size. A bullet over aobut 12-14 BHN won't swage much if at all but it must be the right size and not over size and the harder they are the less forgiving they are. The other side of this is the softer they are, the harder it is to cast a good bullet. The old Star 185's were pure lead, (BHN 5-6) shot very good but were swaged and not cast.
Once I accidently bought some Dardas 45 200 grain bullets that were .451 size. When I shot them I was surprised that they were very accurate and all the commercial bullets that looked just like them were never accurate but they were .452's. I bought some .452's and .453's from Dardas, and the .452 was worse and the .453's were much worse. I did some checking and found that the soft bullets that I was sizing at .452 were being sized to .451 by the brass. I think fit is king but over or undersize can be a problem and if you can make a soft bullet with well filled grooves, that isn't swaged by the brass, it will be easier to make accurate than anything else.
Once I accidently bought some Dardas 45 200 grain bullets that were .451 size. When I shot them I was surprised that they were very accurate and all the commercial bullets that looked just like them were never accurate but they were .452's. I bought some .452's and .453's from Dardas, and the .452 was worse and the .453's were much worse. I did some checking and found that the soft bullets that I was sizing at .452 were being sized to .451 by the brass. I think fit is king but over or undersize can be a problem and if you can make a soft bullet with well filled grooves, that isn't swaged by the brass, it will be easier to make accurate than anything else.
Tonight I decided to make my expander .314 and everything went well but for this Magtech case I am using it has to be made so than the .314 part of the expander go no deeper than about .275 inches because more will ruin the brass by making a bulge. .275 is fortunately just about right fopr the 85 g Lyman. I sent an Email to RCBS and asked them how long the base of the 32-77 bullet is and how large they expect it to be with alloy in the 10-12 range. This tells me that the 85 grain bullet I am using is about as heavy as can be used unless the nose is different length, but that wouldn't make much difference. One day soon, I will slug the bore so I have more information and will post it but I believe it will be .314 also since I believe it is the same as the 32 long barrel but with a different chamber. I would like to find some Remington brass to see how it acts when being expanded.
I got an answer from RCBS: the bullet is .275" from the front edge of the driving band to the base. The diameter should be .3115" to .3125"....
This will probably be fine for an aftermarket barrel, but too small for my barrel. I finally got around to slugging it and it is right about 3137.
My expander is right at .3142 and after expanding a case, it is easy to shove one of my .313249 Lyman bullets into the case so I am going to get another mold of some kind but haven't made a decision yet.
While I was loading, I had some 85 grain wadcutters from a Magma mold that were .314 and loaded 5 into the 32 case. I had to seat them almost flush because if any of the bullet stuck out, it wouldn't chamber and by doing that put quite a curve on the base of the bullet where it bottomed on the thicker part of the brass at a depth of .275. I didn't know the consequences of a bullet that deep in the case, so I loaded .7 of a grain of Accurate #2 and they shot pretty crooked and went about 550 feet per second but they fed just fine.
I had trouble getting consistent ignition from the 231 loads. 2 out of the group fizzed and gave me around 70 feet per second and all the rest of them gave a wide variance in velocity but I wouldn't discount it as a powder and would at least for the moment blame it on the bullet not fitting tight enough in the brass. I'll find out for sure in the future. With 1.6 of 231, I still got a 10 shot group of 3.3 inches with an extreme spread of 240fps. 506 to 746. If I can straighten ignition out, it might well be accurate.
The loads in Accurate #2 didn't have the ignition problem and 1.8 made a group of 2.29 with an average of 794-- E.S. 32 and Sd of 6. From 1.6 to 1.8, the velocity average jumped 44 feet per second. The 1.6 load was 3.28 inches. The Accurate # 2 loads were dropped in an RCBS measure and the 231 was weighed because it won't drop well at that weight.
The last load I messed with just to get a speed was with Power Pistol and was 1.2 grains and averaged 606 with an E.S. of 114 and the fastest was 657. Again, I am blaming the loose bullets. Even with all this, the group was 1.53 wide and 3.08 tall. I am certainly not finished yet but already have decent accuracy with everything wrong.
I gave up on the Unique because it is too hard to drop from a powder measure and just as sure if I weighed out 10 of them they would shoot into an inch and I would spend the rest of my life trying to build a measure that could use it.
This will probably be fine for an aftermarket barrel, but too small for my barrel. I finally got around to slugging it and it is right about 3137.
My expander is right at .3142 and after expanding a case, it is easy to shove one of my .313249 Lyman bullets into the case so I am going to get another mold of some kind but haven't made a decision yet.
While I was loading, I had some 85 grain wadcutters from a Magma mold that were .314 and loaded 5 into the 32 case. I had to seat them almost flush because if any of the bullet stuck out, it wouldn't chamber and by doing that put quite a curve on the base of the bullet where it bottomed on the thicker part of the brass at a depth of .275. I didn't know the consequences of a bullet that deep in the case, so I loaded .7 of a grain of Accurate #2 and they shot pretty crooked and went about 550 feet per second but they fed just fine.
I had trouble getting consistent ignition from the 231 loads. 2 out of the group fizzed and gave me around 70 feet per second and all the rest of them gave a wide variance in velocity but I wouldn't discount it as a powder and would at least for the moment blame it on the bullet not fitting tight enough in the brass. I'll find out for sure in the future. With 1.6 of 231, I still got a 10 shot group of 3.3 inches with an extreme spread of 240fps. 506 to 746. If I can straighten ignition out, it might well be accurate.
The loads in Accurate #2 didn't have the ignition problem and 1.8 made a group of 2.29 with an average of 794-- E.S. 32 and Sd of 6. From 1.6 to 1.8, the velocity average jumped 44 feet per second. The 1.6 load was 3.28 inches. The Accurate # 2 loads were dropped in an RCBS measure and the 231 was weighed because it won't drop well at that weight.
The last load I messed with just to get a speed was with Power Pistol and was 1.2 grains and averaged 606 with an E.S. of 114 and the fastest was 657. Again, I am blaming the loose bullets. Even with all this, the group was 1.53 wide and 3.08 tall. I am certainly not finished yet but already have decent accuracy with everything wrong.
I gave up on the Unique because it is too hard to drop from a powder measure and just as sure if I weighed out 10 of them they would shoot into an inch and I would spend the rest of my life trying to build a measure that could use it.