TargetTalk

jhmartin wrote:

PaulB wrote:A 4-H club in my state was awarded a state grant to buy some "low end" smallbore silhouette rifles. NRA Store does not have any such rifles. Club was told that they must buy from the store. Consequently, can't get the rifles that are needed. What a deal!!!

Log into your login page and at the bottom of the page is Kevin Nishiyama's email as well as phone contact numbers.

Call him and mention that the store does not have the rifles you wanteds, and he will begin the process of shifting the funds to a check .... he will contact your state/area rep to get that done.

It was very a simple and painless process for me. Kevin was polite and easy to work with

Thank you all for your coments. I have been dealing with grants on a one off basis and recognize most of the people here as people who have emailed me. I do NOT have checks cut for something not available in to online store for that reason alone. Please contact me with any issues you have with shopping the store along with your grant ID and I will work with you the same way I have with Mr. Martin. There aren't any canned answers that warrent a check. Please disregard any other comments within this site as pertains to the Grant Process because this year every grant is different.
We have already begun working on product for next year and will have a preview store that generates your budget worksheet and allows you to rank your choices. There will also be a section to add other items not yet found in the store. Thank you all for your support.

Kevin

How did you determine that your rifles shot .49 better than .50?

Seems to me that you're a better than better than better than average shooter if you notice it.

They are bench tested. I believe if you are shooting above 375, or holding the 8 ring, in standing you can tell a difference.

You must have a better bench than I do.

What happens to those clubs that are buying, for example, with vendors that are giving club discounts, such as Champion Shooters Supply? Is the NRA matching those discounted prices?
Or do we have to write our request such that it only specs say, Freeland Products, or a certain price?
Personally, this "NRA Store only" idea makes me squirm, because I was always able to stretch our money by finding some great demo, used, or club deals in the past.

I have been told by the NRA that if a similar item is offered in THE STORE then you must purchase it from THE STORE regardless of price. And, regardless of suitability for the purpose.

The NRA Foundation did not do their homework regarding what should be in the store, where to purchase and pricing. They had the data on what has been purchased where and at what price, but, apparently they did not use it. This could have been used to determine what to put in the store as well as to negotitate pricing with various vendors. Unfortunately, the programs supported by the NRA Foundation are the ones to suffer for this blunder.

Perhaps the NRA Foundation has found a way to make a profit off the grants or perhaps Champion's Choice has made a sweet deal with them since it appears most items in THE STORE are out of the CC catalog. I am really not certain what back room deals or negligence may have taken place, however, if grant recipents were given the option to purchase items the best way possible to maximize their grant dollars then I and other responsible grant recipients would do so. If the NRA Foundation had done their homework and THE STORE lived up to it's stated purpose of maximizing grant dollars then we would want to purchase items there. The NRA Foundation would not have to act like BIG BROTHER and force everyone to purchase from THE STORE. Monopolies such as this do not foster conservation of funding or competition in the market. I believe the NRA is acting much like the governmental bureaucracy and BIG BROTHERISM they claim to fight. It appears the Foundation thinks THEY KNOW BEST and YOU WILL LIKE IT. Sounds like government healthcare to me!

This is going to be a reply to "Guest" and "Guest" above .... I sure wish that I could come out and say that I totally disagree with both of you, but in fact, when I first heard about this "grand idea" it was a few years ago and was not happy then, but was told by someone I respect back at national hqtrs that "we know what we're doing". When I found out what was to be implemented this year (back in Sept I think) the term "going non-linear" is close to describing me. I have to agree with you that this was not thought out well at all .... and mainly because of the small number of staff involved.

Yes, they could have looked thru the past data for what is normally ordered and what the costs were. However, in order to do that, they would have to go back thru the final reports. Now I first need to ask, have you submitted all your final reports in such a manner that this research would have been productive? I can't speak for the NRA here, but if everyone played by the rules (submitting final reports) then this may have possible.

Here in NM we have some folks that have received grant monies and never filed those reports ... or the post office lost them, or the dog ate them, etc.... The staffing at the NRA Foundation has been so small they have not been able to go back after these folks .... shame on them ... they know I'm pretty upset about that, and this is a big reason for the store ... to try and keep us honest I guess.

So my point is that there have been errors on both sides of the fence, and just like everything else in this county it seems, the ones who play by the rules get the short end of the stick.

Just so that you know, while I was up at the JO's in C-Springs a few weeks ago, not one coach or club person that submits these grants were happy ... at all ... with this, but while it's VERY hard for me, I must admit that the NRA Foundation must cover it's rear end with the IRS and others in order to preserve the 501(c)(3) status. And as UNHAPPY as I am at the way things are, I still appreciate that I can run my program without having to sit out in front of Home Depot or Staples selling cookies and cakes to fund our needs.

OK ... all that said ... here is some advise that may (or may not) help you next year.

Here in NM I learned very quickly that members of the state fund committee did not necessarily know about competitive shooting .... even this year I had to spend 30 minutes explaining what an offhand stand was and why it was used. After my 1st year grant was cut to the point of making it pretty much a learning process, I determined that I would be at the grant committee meeting to at least be able to argue my points and desires.

I learned years ago, not to put down "pellets", but the exact type and manufacturer that I was requesting .... and make sure that it got passed along to national that way.
(You probably didn't know it, but your state rep probably had to re-enter your spreadsheet data into another database ... by hand .... oh yeah, we already covered how this wasn't implemented well)

When I requested .22 ammo, I had to again request the specific types and manufacturers and make sure it got passed on. In the early process of the store all they were going to offer was the crappy aquila garbage ... I was most pleasantly surprised when I found the Eley I had requested in the store, and at the Aug-Sept prices ... (it's gone up now, but it's an item that's cheaper in the store)

My advise is to be VERY specific on the spreadsheet. and make sure that that specificity gets passed along after your state committee deals with it.
I'm guessing here, but I'll bet that quite a bit of some of the frustrations is that when the data got re-entered into the "national's spreadsheet" that specificity was lost .... yes national has your original worksheets ... oh yeah, we already covered how this wasn't implemented well

Now, what about the deals you've had for years with some of the dealers & manufacturers? I cannot offer advise there. I have always had a great relationship with Daisy, Monard, CSS, CC, ISS, & Pilkington ... I'm at a loss ... literally and figuratively ... might just have to go hang out at Home Depot & Staples? Maybe contact your favorite supplier and ask them to contact Kevin ... I have no clue if NRA is interested in multiple vendors.

Finally, that the NRA, as is our congress, is out of touch with those that live outside the beltway ... no disagreement there. BUT!!!! Are you a member? Did you get your March magazine? Did you fill out & send in your ballot? (too late now, deadline was APR25) Just like in the national elections you have to vote. Here though you can write in.

If you are willing, and are pissed enough to want a change in the directors, let us know, and I have no problem writing you in.
(Whatever you do DO NOT write me in ... I'm waaaaay to much of a cynic and my momma still chides me for "not playing well with others" ... and I'm 53 this year)

I have filed year end reports for every grant received and there have ben several. I am also an NRA Life member and support the NRA. However, when something is not right I think people should speak up even if it's the NRA. And, yes I vote in NRA elections and government elections.

As I mentioned above ... I totally agree with you.

Just offering a perspective that many folks may not see when they first approach/learn about the store.

I'm pulled both ways .... I've seen the good parts of the store, and encountered some inadequate portions as well. All I can suggest is that you write to both Kevin at the store, your state rep, as well as any members of your state grant committee that you know and express any concerns as well as solutions.

I'm learning with the NRA that my (usual??) method of blowing the bridge behind me and charging forward is not the best method. The NRA is a political lobbying machine run much like a political party. The employees have almost no say and it is up to the directors to make almost all decisions. Some make decisions by evaluating the facts, some by personal biases. Since you don't really know which you are dealing with in any certain area, I'm beginning to learn to start with the facts and see where that leads.

PM or email me if you wish

We too received the requested amont from the NRA for our grant reqeust. What really bites is the fact that we can only utilize 75% of what they gave us and are told we have to give the other 25% back. We were very specific on the items we requested in the work sheet but it did not matter. We have also been told from members that sat on the grant comittee that the ammo dealer for shot shell lied about the prices up front just to get approval. Now were stuck with items that are not very usefull and way over priced compared to what we have been purchasing. It's pretty bad when NRA wants to turn a profit on a program that's designed to help our youth.

GA4-HCOACH wrote:We too received the requested amount from the NRA for our grant request. What really bites is the fact that we can only utilize 75% of what they gave us and are told we have to give the other 25% back.

Details here please ... did you get a check for the 75%? the only way you should "lose" any part of what your committee approved is if NRA witholds the taxes in the store (for your state)... If they cut you a check you should get the full amount. Hard to believe that any state, (well maybe California) has a 25% sales tax.

If the NRA store does not have your specific items then >>I think<< you need to get your area rep involved ... from what I've seen he/she has final approval, not the committee.
(Which I think is totally bogus as the area rep is supposed to only be the secretary for the committee and have no vote ... the NRA should be dealing with, as a minimum, the committee chair ... IMHO)