TargetTalk

Anybody fire test groups before and after cleaning?
Paul

pgfaini wrote:Anybody fire test groups before and after cleaning?
Paul

Too boring.... ;-)

pgfaini wrote:Anybody fire test groups before and after cleaning?
Paul

Good point, I'm going to buy some and try 'em. Reminds me of a Yogi Berra quote:
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But in practice, there is."

pgfaini wrote:Anybody fire test groups before and after cleaning?
Paul

Good point, I'm going to buy some and try 'em. Reminds me of a Yogi Berra quote:
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But in practice, there is."

Based on what I've read on this thread, I sent a felt pellet down the barrel of my FWB 103 yesterday afternoon. I've likely shot 3000-4000 pellets since I bought it, just so you know--a mix of R10 Pistol, H&N Match HS, JSB Match Pistol, mostly (two tins each), and a few other types for a couple of hundred shots each along the way.

The felt came out completely clean. Not a trace of any graphite, lead, or any other contaminant.

Hmm... I would have thought there'd be something.

I've put almost six sleeves of pellets through my 162E, and the only times I've cleaned it, was between lots, which I no longer do,when pellet testing. I feel, if there's any graphite left after a pellet is shot, it will be pushed out by the next one.

I can't believe no one's done any accuracy tests, to verify there's anything(other than self-satisfaction), to be gained by "cleaning" the bore. Generally, I always fire a few "fouling shots" before shooting for record with my cartridge firearms, if the bore's been cleaned.

I DO, clean a .22 barrel between lots of ammo, when testing for accuracy. This is to remove any lube from the previous batch, lube being a contributer to the accuracy of cast lead bullets.
Paul

I'd also like to add, that I think if there IS any graphite coating the pellets, it must be a minute amount. I don't remember any brand of pellet, showing any amount of free graphite, either in the bottom of the tin, or on the white paper disk such as H&N pellets have under the lid. Anyone loading shot shells, knows the dust associated with the graphite treated lead bird shot. I'm aware that the pellets are coated with a thin oil, meant to retard oxidation. Still, they will, in time, if exposed to air, oxidize to a grey lead color, without any hint of graphite.

Just my observations,
Paul

pgfaini wrote:Anybody fire test groups before and after cleaning?
Paul

Yep.

That's why i use them on a rod with bore solvent, and not just shooting them through the barrel, which seems to do sweet fa.

Only a rifle but my Anschutz 9003 manual says not to use them.

glewis4252 wrote:Only a rifle but my Anschutz 9003 manual says not to use them.

Interesting, does it say why not ?

Rob.

N0, it doesn't and my Anschutz 2002 manual didn't include the same warning.
I use them on my other 23 team air rifles, occasionally with a little solvent soaked in.

I have shot test groups before and after and saw a noticeable difference. I would recommend cleaning how ever you want to do it just clean your AP or AR. Based on the test groups I did with my LP1 and LP10 I do not think a pistol shooter would see a significant score change but I can guess there would be a impact of a dirty barrel to a rifle shooter based on what I saw with a pistol.

Chris, could you elaberate on the difference you saw? Was it a larger group, or elevation changes, etc?

I did it from a rest well more like clamped in a vice so I can not tell the impacts on the change in the point of impact. It was also about 7 yrs ago I did this and I did not measure the group sizes. I just remember that I had not cleaned my AP in 10k-15k rounds. I had come back from a big match and Erich told me I should clean my AP often. Wanting to test this I came home set up my AP in my vice and shot into the back of a target and then ran some cleaning pellets and shot again. The group was smaller, now the original group was still a group and all 10 shots were touching and still overlapping. It was not a single hole group and I would not shot in a big match without cleaning first. The group after was typical of the test groups you would get from the factory and that I expected from that lot of pellets and that pistol. The group was large enough that if I were a rifle shooter it would lead me to believe that cleaning often would be important and a dirty barrel could cause you to loose some 10's very easy. Not sure how long it takes for your group size to get big enough to cause some noticeable impacts to your score. It would all depend on your level and abilities.

Hope that helps

Hämmerli recommends the use of felt pellets for cleaning.


From my manual:

"Every 500 shots or so, clean the barrel with a felt pellet soaked in BREAK FREE or some other top quality gun oil.

Deoil the bore by firing a few dry felt pellets."

I was surprised to see the controversy with a cleaning pellet. But, thinking back a little, I see there is a lot of different opinions on cleaning. I shoot prone .22rf matches on the A-36 target, and most clean the barrel only once or twice a year. Our club has ARA matches (22rf benchrest), I vistited but don't shoot, these guys clean their barrels after each string.

Then, in the High Power forums if someone asks about how to break in a barrel, its all over the map on opinions.

I'm new to air rifle/pistol, and appreciate the opinions.

I have used them in the past in break barrel rifles and they do clean up some dirt. The thing I would suggest is loading 2 or 3 at a time for a mag power spring gun to get a lot of back pressure and spare your piston.

The newer PCP rifles like my AA S400 have shrouds with baffles etc so the felt pellet coming out of the barrel a few inches inside the shroud could cause a clog issue in the baffles, keep this in mind if your thinking of using them in a shroud setup.

My Steyr 10m match rifle is a SSP LG1 and the manual recommmends using a DRY and they stress dry felt pellet on occassion but only if accuracy is slipping not ever 500 shots etc.

I can see the felt getting snagged on transfer ports and breach edges but this is all external to the valving in PCP rifles and I also think any loose fibers would likely get blown out the barrel long before they could get into your valving. Murphy's law probably dictates this one of course lol.

My S400 hasn't been cleaned in 2 years of shooting around 12000 pellets and it still drills tight groups at 50 yards.


Bo

glewis4252 wrote:N0, it doesn't and my Anschutz 2002 manual didn't include the same warning.
I use them on my other 23 team air rifles, occasionally with a little solvent soaked in.

2002 manual also says not to use them.

The 2002 Manual I have and the ones I can find online say specifically not to use VFG Felt pellets.

http://www.shooterscatalogue.com/manual ... Manual.pdf

Page 33 of the manual.

No reason given not to use them.

TWP wrote:The 2002 Manual I have and the ones I can find online say specifically not to use VFG Felt pellets.

No reason given not to use them.

I have always felt (pun intended) them to be abrasive.

Alexander