TargetTalk

RobStubbs wrote: The most probable reason is that they are not cooling the cylinder properly and/or filling too quickly.

As an aside that also happens with a 232 cylinder as well - mine has been 'filled' to as little as 170 - 180. Unfortunately you can't tell until you get it home.

Filling too quickly is not favorable. I attend the filling of my tank, in the divershop. Takes quite a while. This shop usually fills 3 tanks simultanously.
Here in Europe, 300 bar tank are gaining favor.

My tank has never been filled to less that a 320 barometer reading, when filling hose still attached to tank, as filling is stopped.
Filling of tanks, by competent divershops is performed slowly, to prevent to rapid temperature rise.

RobStubbs wrote:As an aside that also happens with a 232 cylinder as well - mine has been 'filled' to as little as 170 - 180.

I've never had what I suspected was a short fill in my 232 bar cylinders. I usually get them filled when I drop to 170-180 bar.

A dive shop I used to go to would never charge me as they said I was actually using such a small amount of air and was just topping off the pressure. After this happened a few times I started to feel guilty so, to make sure that I used enough air for them to charge me, I made sure that I only had a few bar left in each tank. After taking quite a while to fill the tanks they still refused payment. "It's April, we never charge for air in April". That shop closed down a few months later :-(

joecon wrote:
b) convert the tank such that it has a 200bar DIN connection – no need for different adaptor, no risk of over charging? – but how would this be done & at what cost?

Interestingly I took my cylinder for re-filling today. I was under the impression it was a 232 BAR Cylinder with 232 gauge...

It transpires that its actually a 300 BAR bottle with a 232 BAR gauge. I was told that they would continue to fill it until its test, but after that it would fail the test (the 5 year test) as strictly speaking a 300BAr cylinder should not be fitted with a 232 gauge ....

Steve

what an odd thread...

firstly

200 bar bottles are 232... so the risk of damage of over fill is the same...unless your really careless with a 300

secondly, fill pressure is below maximum operating pressure

thirdly, Harry Preston (Steyr) in the UK has adapters for the lg110's to fill from 300 bar, using a 200-300 bar adapter...

So, unless your a ham fisted idiot, get hold of the adapter, fill carefully and enjoy the enormous amount of time before you have to refill the 300 bar cylinder over the 232 approach.

If you feel nervous, give Harry a call and talk to him.

And if your nervous about filling, get someone to show you how to do it before hand. It doesn't need to take 10 mins to fill a gun's cylinder, perhaps 10 secs.

Short fills also happen because the operator won't kick up the compressor and is relying on the resovoir tank, which is usually a bit below 300 bar. Go to a fill centre with a decent reputation and a nice digital guage and watch them fill it...there's no problem with 300 bar if you have a decent filler. They will fill it at a rate that keeps it cool, or will cool it for you, but you dont get anywhere near as much heat from a top up than from empty, and you'll never go empty.

Another reason to go to 300 bar...it wont take you long to drop below 200 bar on a 232 and you'll be back to the dive shop.

7l 300 bar will last you a fair long time with a 3ft/lb pistol or a 6ft/lb rifle filling them to 200 bar...it lasts me and a mate ages with 12ft/lb gear filling over 200 bar.

You can get the head swapped on a 300 bar tank. You should have one with a surface only guage:

a) because it's easier to read sometimes

b) because some shops will insist on only a 2 year test interval for valves that can be used below surface

c) because if you ever have a gun converted to a quickfill, you lose the guage on the gun

The guage measures what is in the line/cylinder, not what's in the tank.

I simply have changed to where I go. I now get my tank filled at a paint ball store! I tell them very emphatically that I'm in no rush and to fill it very slow. I can't get them to fill it to 3200psi as at the scuba shop but I had strong doubts about them and the tank was always very warm when I got it. If its warm, wait till it cools down and tell them to do it again! No longer....just be stern or tell them you'll take your business elsewhere.

~Phil

robf wrote: Harry Preston (Steyr) in the UK has adapters for the lg110's to fill from 300 bar, using a 200-300 bar adapter...

Oh, did not now that. Had one custom made.

robf wrote: get hold of the adapter, fill carefully and enjoy the enormous amount of time before you have to refill the 300 bar cylinder over the 232 approach.

Seems you have got my point.

robf wrote: If you feel nervous, give Harry a call and talk to him.

No, me not nervous.

robf wrote: It doesn't need to take 10 mins to fill a gun's cylinder, perhaps 10 secs.

I refill my cylinders slowly. 30 sec. or more.

robf wrote: but you dont get anywhere near as much heat from a top up than from empty, and you'll never go empty.

That is correct.

robf wrote: Another reason to go to 300 bar...it wont take you long to drop below 200 bar on a 232 and you'll be back to the dive shop.

Beyond any doubt...

robf wrote:because some shops will insist on only a 2 year test interval for valves that can be used below surface

At testing, you may order your tank proof stamped for 5 years. For above surface use only.

robf wrote:
because some shops will insist on only a 2 year test interval for valves that can be used below surface



At testing, you may order your tank proof stamped for 5 years. For above surface use only.

In the UK, the law requires that any tank to which a diving regulator can be fitted is tested every two years. You can paint your cylinder bright pink and label it in large letters "Surface Use Only" but if it hasn't got a surface valve then it's 2 year checks.

Rutty

Rutty wrote:
In the UK, the law requires that any tank to which a diving regulator can be fitted is tested every two years. You can paint your cylinder bright pink and label it in large letters "Surface Use Only" but if it hasn't got a surface valve then it's 2 year checks.

Say that again....PINK?
Pink (pimp?) my tank, pink my...

What differentiates a "divers valve" from a "(above) surface valve"?

My tank has a screw-in standard (female) valve. No "hook-on" possibilities.
When I bought my tank, I was informed it could be used for diving.
A bit confused here.

By us there is no such thing as a "surface valve", if I am not totally wrong.
Here, the stamping tells for what use. An extra capital letter (A) only, is added for (above) surface use. ...Then there are 5 year check intervals.

there certainly is...

my bottle has a gauge in the head, the gauge certainly is not waterproof and designed for surface only use. As such, the bottle can't be used sub surface.

similar to this


as opposed to this, where the gauge can be removed leaving a head that can be used sub surface

Voila!.
If I had known better, when I purchased my scuba tank, I may have ordered it with a "surface valve"? . And got 5 year check intervals from the very beginning.
As is, check interval was 3 years for brand new tank, then subsequently 2 year intervals.

Tank you for those clarifying pictures.

Thanks to all for info & experiences. I have my LP-10 & the 300 bar tank a number of weeks now. Initially I had the loan of a charged 232 bar tank & found it easy to get a controlled slow fill, such that stopping at the end of the green zone was easy. My first fill of the 300 bar tank was just to just over 200 bar & similarly it is easy to get a slow controlled fill. I will consider increasing the tank fill pressure of future fills based on my experiences over next weeks. Joe.