TargetTalk

PardiniGSP wrote:"...I whizz my target back and forth after every shot..."

What effect do you think all that whizzing has on the people shooting around you?

Er how about zero !

Most competitions with paper targets are one shot per card so cards go backwards and forwards all the time. If you shoot in a club with serious competition shooters then you better get used to it. Some of the old guys in my club didn't like it to begin with but I'm not compromising my shooting / training just to keep them less grumpy. Once I explained to them why I was doing it they were fine.

Rob.

RobStubbs wrote:Most competitions with paper targets are one shot per card so cards go backwards and forwards all the time.

I think this is the difference between the US and Europe and the reason for the USAS rule allowing scopes. Airgun matches are nowhere near as popular as cartridge gun matches in the US, so there are lots of ranges that don't have carriers. For example, back when I still lived in Boston, I shot a few matches at a New Hampshire range that did not have carriers. What they had us do was put up a whole array of (was it 6?) targets at once, shoot them, then they'd make the line safe for everyone to go change the whole set. Pretty obviously, to make that workable, you do need a scope.

For those of you who do not live in North America, the term "whiz" is a rather funny idiomatic expression for relieving one's bladder. A country or peoples language frequently results in a vernacular vitually incomprehensible to others schooled in the formal language.

I think that George Bernard Shaw said "The United States and England are two countries separated by a common language."

I would find people whizzing all around me during an AP Match to be somewhat disconcerting...in any sense of the term.

Tillman

tleddy wrote:I think that George Bernard Shaw said "The United States and England are two countries separated by a common language."

As we've discovered many times on TT in the past.

Mind you, judging from the damp patch on his firing point, I've always thought that Rob just perspired a lot ;-) (only joking Rob).

Nicole Hamilton wrote:

RobStubbs wrote:Most competitions with paper targets are one shot per card so cards go backwards and forwards all the time.

I think this is the difference between the US and Europe and the reason for the USAS rule allowing scopes. Airgun matches are nowhere near as popular as cartridge gun matches in the US, so there are lots of ranges that don't have carriers. For example, back when I still lived in Boston, I shot a few matches at a New Hampshire range that did not have carriers. What they had us do was put up a whole array of (was it 6?) targets at once, shoot them, then they'd make the line safe for everyone to go change the whole set. Pretty obviously, to make that workable, you do need a scope.

Down in Newberry, SC, Coach Joel "Doc." Sexton is using a new, still in development, AP target system, which uses targets printed on continuous rolls. A momentary/double-throw/center-off switch at each firing point, allows the shooter to roll the targets up or down, centering the next target in the unit's frame. These targets make a scope a necessity. Not only can you not WHIZZ the target back to the firing line, for a look see, but the target numbers we hand print on the upper right hand corner with a felt tip marker, are difficult to see at 10M., making the possibility of shooting on the wrong target a reality, if it weren't for the scope.

Paul

Nicole Hamilton wrote:

tleddy wrote:We're all adults but we all behave like children sometimes.

The rules should be posted before the match and, by entering you are agreeing to those rules.

But if this particular rule wasn't posted, or wasn't within the "reference rules" under which the event took place, then a change should require the concensus of those already signed up.

That's how rules *should* work.

But we're all human and some do quirky things sometimes.

If it's a small deal, then I'd say "bend with the wind." Cranking targets back and forth may be distracting but it also gives you the opportunity (!) of steeling yourself against distractions and deepening your concentration. In the long run, this can only help you.

Well, here in Canada (again), we think we are doing really well to have returnable targets (clothesline) for Air Pistol and Rifle at our big matches (including the Canadian Airgun Grand Prix). Most have hand cranks, some have electric motors to do the winding. Yes, there are lots of targets whizzing back and forth all the time. One learns to concentrate and ignore the distraction.
Mike T.

Hey Nicole ..... Just turn up for your next league match and use your scope as usual ..... just wear cowboy boots and a thong bikini , then no-one will care about the scope !

iow wrote:Hey Nicole ..... Just turn up for your next league match and use your scope as usual ..... just wear cowboy boots and a thong bikini , then no-one will care about the scope !

THAT WAS UNCALLED FOR!!!

has anybody wondered why the ISSF does not allow scopes for 10 Metre events?

Anonymous wrote:has anybody wondered why the ISSF does not allow scopes for 10 Metre events?

Not me. But if you try and fathom out the reasons behind all the ISSF rules you will probably go slowly mad.

Rob.

RobStubbs wrote:

Anonymous wrote:has anybody wondered why the ISSF does not allow scopes for 10 Metre events?

Not me. But if you try and fathom out the reasons behind all the ISSF rules you will probably go slowly mad.

Rob.

Is it really true that they reduced the size of side blinders and occluders for "photogenic" reasons? This happened while I was away from the sport for a while, and when I came back, found I had to cut these down, and could no longer flip down the side blinders on my cap. Doesn't this reduce the safety value of these acessories?

Paul

pgfaini wrote: Doesn't this reduce the safety value of these accessories?

Paul

Yes it does. Since USAS does not video matches, this is one place where it would make sense to have a local/regional exception to the Official ISSF Rules

Anonymous wrote:has anybody wondered why the ISSF does not allow scopes for 10 Metre events?

Maybe because ISSF rule 6.3.15.3 says 10m ranges must be equiped with electric-mechanical target carriers or changers, oe electronic scoring targets.

Since they have that rule they really can't allow scopes as there should be no need for them.

My thanks to Richard H for posting the reference rule.

Nicole - since the rangemaster has prohibited scope use, you might point out the requirement for the "electric-mechanical" target movers.

"6.3.15.3 - 10 m ranges must be equipped with electric-mechanical target
carriers or changers, or Electronic Scoring Targets."

Tillman

tleddy wrote:
Nicole - since the rangemaster has prohibited scope use, you might point out the requirement for the "electric-mechanical" target movers.

"6.3.15.3 - 10 m ranges must be equipped with electric-mechanical target
carriers or changers, or Electronic Scoring Targets."

Tillman

Great post, Tillman

Paul

tleddy wrote:Nicole - since the rangemaster has prohibited scope use, you might point out the requirement for the "electric-mechanical" target movers.

We don't know whether the "clothesline style" target system was electric-mechanical or "human-powered", Nicole didn't specify.

What we do know is that, with a match of 30 shots and 2 shots per card, it could hardly have been described as a strict ISSF match. It is therefore back to a "local rules" match and depends on those rules being made clear.

At The British Pistol Club we obviously have severe problems fully complying with ISSF rules. We have found however that it is easier to base our own "local rules" on the ISSF book and simply issue a list of deviations from ISSF and update it when appropriate.

David Levene wrote:We don't know whether the "clothesline style" target system was electric-mechanical or "human-powered", Nicole didn't specify.
:
At The British Pistol Club we obviously have severe problems fully complying with ISSF rules. We have found however that it is easier to base our own "local rules" on the ISSF book and simply issue a list of deviations from ISSF and update it when appropriate.

They're hand-cranked. There are no local rules written down anywhere for our league. The match director freely admitted he was making up the rule disallowing scopes on the spot.

I really appreciate Tillman's digging up that rule requiring electrically-operated carriers even though I don't think I want to confront our director with this information. I'm probably better off just enjoying the private satisfaction of knowing I'm right and he's a jerk. :)

If you have returnable targets either human powered or electric-mechanical there is really no need for a scope. If they are making you post numerous targets at the same time (that are not returnable) then a scope should be allowed.

Nicole:

You chose to enter a league which does not have published rules nor any official sanctioning body other than the local rangemaster. While I might agree that the whizzing targets back and forth creates a distracting environment for all, a non-conforming competitor creates a distraction for all other competitors. I don't agree with your rangemaster though, and really disapprove of his attitude. With people like that nothing you do will ever satisfy them. If you quit and don't return, they don't even care and go on being a prick to someone else. The issue of local rules is pretty clear in this case. They are the only rules.