Last 200 Milliseconds

If you wish to make a donation to this forum's operation , it would be greatly appreciated.
https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/targettalk?yours=true

Moderators: pilkguns, m1963, David Levene, Spencer, Richard H

Forum rules
If you wish to make a donation to this forum's operation , it would be greatly appreciated.
https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/targettalk?yours=true
Guest

Post by Guest »

Sorry, didn't log in on the above post.
Gryphon.
Ed Hall

Focusing on what we desire will bring faster results...

Post by Ed Hall »

The negative is not what makes us improve. It is what we do with the stimulus we receive, be it negative or positive. Of course, we will start out as beginners shooting outside the ten, some by quite a distance. The subconscious needs to be free to experiment to find the way. But if we provide it direction and focus it will bring those 8s and 9s in to meet our desires. If we beat it for not meeting our expectations, how can it ever study all the avenues and find the way? If we study the negatives we can still get there, but we are wasting time because we will have to turn that around to figuring out how to correct them. Some of us have to approach life that way, kind of like the child who is told a stove is hot, don't touch it, but must experience the pain of a burn to understand.

On the other hand, lots of people are considered "naturals" at life. I would suggest they are able to work within the direction of study without focus on the negatives. Life is full of examples to choose from, where I believe focus on the things that work is how we achieved what we have. When we learn to walk, I don't think we try to figure out why gravity makes us fall. I think we try to focus on learning the balancing act as soon as possible, so we can get to those out of reach, but interesting, things.

What we focus on is brought to us in life. This is called by many terms; synchronicity is but one. It is considered "magic" by some, coincidence by others. But the basic fact is that although seemingly coincidental, it was something our subconscious was working out because our conscious put it to the task. If you were to trace backwards the instances that led to the present, you would find an actual logical path under the surface that reveals the choices made along the intended route to reach the goal, were all made based on the focus given.

Another example I recently wrote about is typing. As I type along, composing these messages, I consciously (mostly) construct the material and subconsciously, type the letters into the computer. My subconscious is working at a level where it can catch and correct some errors, by itself, while I type. If I happen to hit two t's instead of one, and my subconscious catches it, I automatically hit the Backspace prior to the next correct key. There are also other errors that show up which are not caught automatically, but consciously, and I go back and fix them. If I spent time slapping myself for all these mistakes and getting mad at how many "7s" and "8s" I typed, I'd never get anything posted because I'd be battered and focusing on all those mistypings. I would probably slow down considerably due to being too cautious of everything (sound like that over-cautious trigger finger?). By simply accepting the fact that there will be errors and focusing on the message I want to convey, my typing has improved to the point where I can type pretty fast with a lot fewer errors. Is it perfect? No, but it is far improved over where I started.

In shooting, if we accept the fact that we will shoot all kinds of shots when we are starting and focus on what we want to achieve, the subconscious is free to experiment and find the path. If we keep beating it up every time it doesn't give us a "judged" perfect result, we become afraid of failure. We get to a point where we are so concerned about the shot possibly not hitting center, we inhibit the natural flow of the process. If we can, instead, tell the subconscious that we would like it to find the path to center and then have the fortitude to turn it loose, it will find that path for us. And tens will become easy to shoot.

But we must stop judging good/bad and simply give our subconscious direction by focusing on what we desire, not on our errors, and for sure, not on how bad we will beat it, if it fails to please us. The subconscious likes emotion, but it doesn't know the difference between focusing on what we like and focusing on what we dislike. It just sees the focus. Feed it with your desires by focusing on what you're seeking.

Thank you to all for any replies, be they flames/critiques/etc...

Take Care,
Ed Hall
http://www.airforceshooting.org/
http://www.geocities.com/ed_ka2fwj/
Steve Swartz

Post by Steve Swartz »

O.K., to reduce the "esoter-ocity" of the thread . . .

1) Fundamentally, the act of shooting a ten (last 200 ms) involves releasing the shot at the right moment before the muzzle transits the ten ring, so that as the pellet leaves the muzzle it is aligned with the ten ring.

Agree/Disagree?

2) We have the sight picture, consisting of both alignment and aim, to help us figure out where the muzzle is pointed. The kinesthetic sense also helps in determing where the gun is pointed (feedback from body position, shoulder, arm, wrist and hand). This muzzle position pointing information is critical in determining when to release the shot; both in terms of where it is pointed now, how fast is moving around, and in what direction. We can't process all that information consciously.

Agree/Disagree?

3) We have felt trigger pressure, and finger position/movement, to help us figure out when the shot is going to break. While we can control the trigger pressure consciously to a great degree, there is lag time and other variables involved such that we cannot process- or control- all of that information consciously to the degree of accuracy required to break each shot exactly as intended.

Agree/Disagree?

3) While we have the ability to *program* our semi-autonomic processing, for the most part shooting a ten is not something that we can just mindlessly start doing from day one and let our "subconscious" randomly figure things out. In this regard at least, shooting a ten is not like breathing, swallowing, or not biting our tounges during chewing. We have to *train* our subconscious to control the right processes- like hitting a 100 mph fastball- it can all be done subconsciously, but not without training. We have to program our semi-autonomic processes first.

Agree/Disagree?

O.K., so the Grand Question is therefore:

What is the BEST (fastest, most reliable, etc) training approach that results in the programming of these semiautonomic processes in a way that allows each shooter to perform at the limits of his or her potential?

In Other Words

When I set about determining "Which Grip (stance, body position, shot plan, trigger process, dry fire drill, peaking schedule, breakfast beverage, etc.) Is Best for Me?"

What I *really* need to know is "How Do The Alternative Grip (stance, body position, shot plan, trigger process, dry fire drill, peaking schedule, breakfast beverage, etc.) Options Affect My Ability To Program/Reinforce The Semi-Autonomic Processes" that will result in releasing the shot at the right moment before the muzzle transits the ten ring, so that as the pellet leaves the muzzle it is aligned with the ten ring."


My argument is/has been that many of us are *held back* from achieving our potential by a very imperfect understanding of just what the hell is/is supposed to really be going on when we shoot a ten.

Ask a shooter- surprisingly, even at the world class levels- *why* they are performing a certain drill, or performing a certain drill a certain way, or even what the expected outcome of performing that drill is supposed to be- specifically, and with a direct linkage to the last 200 ms of the shot- and all/most/many/some will not have very good answer.

Personally, I'd like to change that.

Steve Swartz
Bob Fleming
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2004 8:25 pm
Location: Hunt County, Texas

Post by Bob Fleming »

The big secret to programming the mind to pull the trigger in such a manner that the sight alignment is not disturbed and the pistol happens to go off at the right moment for another ten?

Begin the trigger pressure and/or movement before the steadiest period and do not stop until after you notice that the pistol has fired or you abort the shot. This movement and/or increase in trigger pressure does not need to be slow. Do not attempt to speed up or slow down the trigger according to your judgment of the chances for a ten. Let it do whatever it will. It should be as if there was a race between trigger and sights. You are on the sights. This is not new information.
It works because you are concentrating on sights and ignoring the trigger. As long as the trigger activity does not move the sights do not worry about it. The subconscious will take over and deal with the trigger. At first there will be many bad shots. Ignore them! You must not reinforce poor performance. The subconscious does not know right from wrong. Reinforce only the good shots. Visualizing good shots helps speed the process. Eventually, nearly everything will be automatic.
User avatar
jackh
Posts: 802
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 8:51 pm
Location: Oregon USA

Post by jackh »

Your description, Bob, still makes me see a lot of conscious activity going on. The mystery to me is about the turning over to the subconscious the refining of the shot elements in the last milliseconds without any reverting to conscious adjusting or sequencing. It is trying to let go the thinking, just see the sight and shoot. It is getting to the point that the phrase "don't think, just shoot" indeed becomes valid.
Ed Hall

Post by Ed Hall »

To address Steve's latest post, first:

1) I disagree with the current wording. The act of shooting a ten involves releasing the shot during the interval when the arc of movement is naturally coinciding with the area of aim. Depending on the purity and consistency of the trigger operation, as well as the size of the natural portion of the arc of motion, and contingent on the lack of conscious error-correction in these activities, the shot will fall within a given natural area. As the subconscious learns the proper trigger process and the internal methods for reducing the arc, it also begins to recognize the patterns within the natural arc of motion. It can then determine how to best time the trigger to coincide with the arc to provide the best chance for the results we have requested. Will this be a 10.9? Maybe, but not necessarily. It will be within the standard deviation of our hold.

2) Again, I must suggest a rewording. We have the observation of the sighting activity, the dynamic pattern of natural motion of all elements. This information is being processed by the subconscious as a familiar visual activity. We also have the familiar trigger application programming. The subconscious can determine when to start the familiar trigger process to coincide with the familiar sighting observation.

3) "...break each shot exactly as intended." promotes the idea of instantaneous response. This is detrimental to the process. The activity of shot coincidence is within a narrow time component, but is not an instantaneous event. It is a process to coincide the shot release within the optimum sighting observation for the best chance of success in meeting whatever we have programmed into our subconscious.

3#2) In a way, we can mindlessly let our subconscious figure out the details. To step back to chewing, our subconscious learned all about tongue movement by constantly sending it impulses and seeing what goes on. We're born without teeth; perhaps a divine method for saving us from some pain? Could this also be why we're born short? As with the many varied pieces of the shooting equation, the answer lies in how well we can communicate our desires to our subconscious, and then how well we can let it handle the process.

The answer that can't be described is because we don't have the deep understanding of the system which comes from the experience of living the moment. We have a vocabulary that at best allows us to describe our thoughts in terms that relate to other thoughts already understood in a variety of ways throughout our ranks. It would be like trying to describe red to someone without being able to reference something that is viewable to them as red.

Our age-old fundamental description of "aligning the sights and causing the hammer to fall without disturbing that alignment" means different things to different shooters depending on where they observe it along their paths. I ask each reader to review their understanding of the above quote before moving to the next paragraph.

Did any of you see in this quote, that the sights should be used to observe the purity of the trigger operation? Or, that the alignment referenced is really a dynamic observation of the sights?

Good/bad must be left behind. If we judge the results in this way, we lend emotional energy to both those we desire and those we don't. All shots are just holes until we judge them. As an example, an eight might be a poor shot to an elite shooter, while it may be a great shot to a beginner. In the "big picture" it's really just a marker as to the result of a particular element of the experiment. By focusing our study on the markers that support our desire, and lending excitement to them, we can direct our energies to the study of what gives a better chance for a ten.

To cover Steve's last area above, there is no direct description because it is in the understanding achieved through study on a personal basis that can't be conveyed through our communication skills directly to another. We can suggest direction for others to follow, but even their results through experiment will be based on individual past experience and filtered by their own belief system.

What is happening when a shooter is shooting tens? A variety of elements are often used to describe the "zone." Relaxed, confident, detached, observant, etc. But, how do we train to get there? Again, an individual issue, but we do have suggested paths. These paths all sound familiar, too. Training for consistency, practicing things that work, allowing the shot to progress, physical training to decrease arc, visualization to let our subconscious know what we want.

Can this be bottled? It can be written about in many ways. Can it be handed to someone? Direction can be offered. In the end it comes down to individual evaluation of the journey, not of the destination.

What happens in the last 200 milliseconds? Coincidence of all the elements.

Take Care,
Ed Hall
http://www.airforceshooting.org/
http://www.geocities.com/ed_ka2fwj/
User avatar
RobStubbs
Posts: 3183
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 1:06 pm
Location: Herts, England, UK

Post by RobStubbs »

<snip>

3) "...break each shot exactly as intended." promotes the idea of instantaneous response. This is detrimental to the process. The activity of shot coincidence is within a narrow time component, but is not an instantaneous event. It is a process to coincide the shot release within the optimum sighting observation for the best chance of success in meeting whatever we have programmed into our subconscious
Ed,
Not sure that's actually true. If it were it suggests a conscious activity. What I perceive as the 'suprise' of a shot being released is that the subconscious has spotted the sight picture being OK and letting the trigger finger go. The nerve signals go straight from the subconscious brain to the trigger finger - rather than going into the conscious brain for us to add in a slow thought stage prior to trigger release.
Good/bad must be left behind. If we judge the results in this way, we lend emotional energy to both those we desire and those we don't. All shots are just holes until we judge them. As an example, an eight might be a poor shot to an elite shooter, while it may be a great shot to a beginner
Again I have to disagree. It matters not what the actual 'score' is but it does matter a lot whether the shot was technically good, or not. Self praise is very important but self reproach is destructive. One of the phrases often quoted is 'feast or forget'. Feel the warm glow of doing it right but forget doing it less well. That way the warm feeling will dominate and good scores result.

The above gives us the gratification and enjoyment which is why we all shoot. If you don't praise and enjoy the good shot then what is the purpose behind shooting ?

Rob.
Ed Stevens

Post by Ed Stevens »

I think there are two types of surprise breaks: the complete surprise and the conscious surprise. It is possible to apply pressure to the trigger so slowly that the break of the shot cannot be predicted by either the conscious or the subconscious. This is the complete surprise. While this type of break will in fact eliminate the rapid muscle twitches coming from an unhappy subconscious that result in flyers, it will place shots only within the arc of movement of the shooter and cannot guarantee maximum performance.

The conscious surprise break, on the other hand, occurs when the shooter has willingly turned control of the trigger over to the subconscious. All slack has been taken up and only a slight additional pressure is required to break the shot. The shooter is consciously focused (visually and mentally) on the sight picture, feeding the subconscious the visual information needed to determine the optimal time to break the shot. The shooter is not consciously even aware of the trigger finger on the trigger or any sense of pressure and does not "now" or anticipate the shot. At the optimal moment the gun goes off, surprising the conscious but under the control of the subconscious. You know you have a ten without looking through the scope and it seemed so darned effortless.

The trick is doing it ten times in a row. I'm still working on that bit.
Steve Swartz

Post by Steve Swartz »

Agree mainly with Rob stubbs/Ed Stevens comments. The subconscious can be- must be- trained. "Good" vs. "Bad" has very little to do with holes in paper adn everything to do with "were your behaviors executed properly." I'd much rather shoot a series of properly executed 9s than teh same number of "snatch and grab" 10s.


One minor nit- . . . the trick is doing it 26 (or more) times in a row . . . 10 in a row was a speedbump. 25 in a row was frustrating; not because of the 9 on number 26 but because of the 10s I passed up in order to shoot the 9. And because of the undeserved 10s along the way.

Doing everything perfectly for 60 shots does not guarantee a 600. Your potential on any given day is limited by things beyond your control. What IS in your control is whether or not you shoot up to whatever your potential was.

Some days your potential is 560 . . . other days it is 590. Capturing your potential through perfect execution (during all the 560 days) is the only way to get to that 590.

Steve Swartz
Ed Hall

Post by Ed Hall »

Ah, the ambiguity of the written word. Kind of like the various levels of the shot process as we travel our paths...

The portion of my earlier message relating to the coincidence of the shot release within the optimum sighting observation was meant to be a description of the subconscious workings. Our purpose in closely observing the sighting system is often misinterpreted as a process whereby we look for aiming/alignment errors and fix them. This is not in line with what I'm describing. The purpose of the close observation of the sighting system is to provide input to our subconscious as to what we are doing in our dynamic activity of trying to hold still at a certain point in space relative to a fixed point elsewhere. There is a natural pattern, unique to each of us, that is scribed (hopefully) over the aiming area. It is not the simple lazy eight, but rather a complex pattern. But it does have recognizable elements that the subconscious can follow, if we don't disturb it. From study of that pattern and knowledge of how long our consistent trigger takes to complete, our subconscious can calculate the coincidence. Two factors must be met:

1) The hold must be allowed to float naturally.
2) The trigger has to be consistent

If the hold is interrupted by our conscious making adjustments, the subconscious has to start its study over again. If the trigger isn't consistent, the subconscious can't determine when to start it for optimum results.

To the idea of good/bad, all evaluation and celebration should be after the last shot. In our quest for tens we normally all agree that consistency is the key in all our endeavors. How can one be consistent, if from shot to shot, we judge good/bad technique (or result) before the next shot? Each shot would be a combination of our training plus the emotional response to the last shot. Perhaps fine if all we shoot are perfectly orchestrated tens, but the majority of us fire other ones as well. I'm not saying that we should not rejoice in our accomplishments. In fact, we are often guilty of down-playing accomplishments. I have one Team Member on a Team I associate with who can't take a compliment without immediately pointing out all the trouble spots and highlighting anything that doesn't match the compliment. He is far from alone. How many of us focus on that one "bad" shot every time? What if all shots were just shots?

We do need to feed the subconscious emotions associated with meeting our desires, but we must be cautious of when, where and how we show it. If we judge something good, are we not inherently considering the rest bad? I'm suggesting that instead of good/bad we just highlight those actions/results that are in line with our desires, and heck yes, celebrate appropriately.

Take Care,
Ed Hall
http://www.airforceshooting.org/
http://www.geocities.com/ed_ka2fwj/
User avatar
RobStubbs
Posts: 3183
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 1:06 pm
Location: Herts, England, UK

Post by RobStubbs »

Ed Hall wrote:To the idea of good/bad, all evaluation and celebration should be after the last shot. In our quest for tens we normally all agree that consistency is the key in all our endeavors. How can one be consistent, if from shot to shot, we judge good/bad technique (or result) before the next shot? Each shot would be a combination of our training plus the emotional response to the last shot. Perhaps fine if all we shoot are perfectly orchestrated tens, but the majority of us fire other ones as well. I'm not saying that we should not rejoice in our accomplishments. In fact, we are often guilty of down-playing accomplishments. I have one Team Member on a Team I associate with who can't take a compliment without immediately pointing out all the trouble spots and highlighting anything that doesn't match the compliment. He is far from alone. How many of us focus on that one "bad" shot every time? What if all shots were just shots?

We do need to feed the subconscious emotions associated with meeting our desires, but we must be cautious of when, where and how we show it. If we judge something good, are we not inherently considering the rest bad? I'm suggesting that instead of good/bad we just highlight those actions/results that are in line with our desires, and heck yes, celebrate appropriately.

Take Care,
Ed Hall
Ed,
As seems to be my want I've got to disagree again ;-)

The whole point of praising the good shots is to make us feel good about ourselves and our shooting. That gives the feeling we crave and leads to more good shots. From all my readings around the mental game that is what all writers state. Also you are not saying the other shots are bad, they are not in your mind, forget them, they don't matter. Again the point here is build up the positive good feelings. Part of our mental training is to forget the poor shots. Thinking about them just drags you down. Likewise don't remember and discuss the poor shots or performance. Pick out the good bits and forget the rest. Sure if you had technical errors learn from them but focus on perfecting the technique rather than on the errors.

Another comment is to focus on the shot in the gun since that is the only one that matters and the only one you can influence. However by remembering the good shot you increase the chances of it happening again, ditto if you erroneously remember the bad shots - you will increase the chances of repeating that and shooting another poor shot.

Rob.
Ed Hall

Post by Ed Hall »

Disagreement is fine. I welcome all input. But, I will also ask if you've ever tried any sessions without the emotional baggage? Perhaps a couple/few targets of ten shots where you don't look at each, keep an even temperament and don't make any judgment as to good/bad anything. If you try it, you must refrain from checking each shot. If the curiosity is too great, try to quell it by visualizing that each shot was fine.

It may not work for you, but be careful of the why. We are very strong willed and we can prove anything we believe whether it be success or failure.

You are exactly correct on being in the now. The only shot we can affect is the one we're in direct control of at this point in time. This brings me right back around to my same thoughts as prior. If I approach shot 1 performing my fundamentals to perfection, and it places a 10.9 precisely on the paper, would it be better to approach shot 2 by following the steps I used for shot 1, or by trying to duplicate shot 1? This may seem like a trick question, but study it a bit. For shot 1, I performed a shot based on my understanding of fundamentals. If I now approch shot 2 based on how I fired shot 1, I've already changed my approach. I didn't fire shot 1 based on a previous shot. How can I duplicate it? The only way is to approach the current shot as the only shot, not based in any way, good or bad, on the previous shot.

Take Care,
Ed Hall
http://www.airforceshooting.org/
http://www.geocities.com/ed_ka2fwj/
Steve Swartz

Post by Steve Swartz »

Ed:

And that's exactly why we must focus on training for the "execution of the proper behaviors" and build our process around that- a very, very different approach from training for "the shooting of tens."

Also- in order to focus our training on programming the proper behaviors so they become "natural," "semi-autonomic," or "subconscious" (take your pick) don't we also need to first figure out just what the heck those "Proper Behaviors" *are* exactly; and why?

- train your mind to focus first on maintaining alignment
- train your mind to recognize AND ACCEPT your "settle"
- train your trigger control to be fast, smooth, and consistent

- do all of the above, perfectly, 1,000 times in order to train/program your (subconscious) shot release computer

And While We're At It

- figure out, technique wise, which combinations of stance, grip, finger position, shot plan, match plan, etc will provide for hte most reliable establishment and execution of the ALIGN-ACCEPT-RELEASE sequence leading up to the MoT

Pretty Simple, Yes? Easy- No- Why Not?

Steve "The Student" Swartz
EdStevens
Posts: 129
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 7:58 am
Location: Ottawa Ontario Canada

Post by EdStevens »

The mental game is extremely interesting. I'm not yet a top shooter, and struggle with the aspects under discussion here.

The very best precision group that I have ever shot was done under curious circumstances. It was NRA precision, and I was working on positive self-image at the time. I inadvertantly set my scope up on someone else's target. We were shooting such that as I scoped each shot, there was one there to see, and they were shots that were not so far off that I didn't believe they were mine if I was shooting a little below average. While the shots were not what I had called (I called a good shot each time, and they were not), I maintained my composure each time and focused on doing better. After the ten shots, when I walked up to score the target, I was amazed to see this tiny group in the centre.

I still don't quite understand how that worked. Although I was getting negative feedback with each shot, my attitude was positive in trying to do better with each subsequent shot that I took. I think we've all experienced the "fall from grace" where you shoot one really nice string (very positive experience) and then lose focus and fall apart as a resuit.

Ah, the brain is a funny thing. Consciously controlling your subconscious is not impossible, but it's tricky. I have nothing but admiration for those that can do it consistently.
Steve Swartz

Post by Steve Swartz »

Ed:

What will the scope tell you that is of any interest? I'm not just being a wiseass here- I'm serious.

If you are executing the proper behaviors, you will know it. The holes in the paper are a dangerous distraction.

If you were using a dot sight, you already knew you were sighted in for that distance. With iron sights outdoors, you may want to scope for adjustment after shooting three shots then put the scope away. With a dot, just don't bring a scope to the range.

Yes, I'm serious about this . . .

Steve Swartz
EdStevens
Posts: 129
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 7:58 am
Location: Ottawa Ontario Canada

Post by EdStevens »

The scope tells me where a shot actually hit the paper. :-) If I am making a consistent error, it can identify that error and allow me to correct it before all ten shots are gone during a competition. During practice, it can serve to confirm that I did call shots correctly as they occur, too. This includes a ten being a ten as well as that little twitch throwing a shot off. I think this helps educate the subconscious. I only shoot iron sights, btw, and have never tried red dots. I don't know how much difference that would make to me.

I can't always detect problems while calling the shot, to be honest. As an example, I had a problem of late where my arm lifted fractionally just before my subconscious broke the shot. Being able to see those high shots through the scope made me aware of what was happening, as opposed to walking up after all ten shots and not relating each hole to a specific action.

Having said that, I will freely admit that the scope can also be a real mental problem at times, too. It affects your emotional/conscious focus and self-image in bad ways lots of times. Even shooting well can screw you up by getting you excited or overconfident or afraid to fail when you scope those four tens in a row, and it would be better not to know in those cases. I see it happen to me, and I see it happen to lots of other shooters, too.

You raise a good point. I will try putting the scope aside more during practice and see what effect it has.

This is a tough game, and it teaches me more more about how my mind works (or doesn't) than anything. Okay, golf is close.
User avatar
RobStubbs
Posts: 3183
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 1:06 pm
Location: Herts, England, UK

Post by RobStubbs »

Ed Hall wrote:Disagreement is fine. I welcome all input. But, I will also ask if you've ever tried any sessions without the emotional baggage? Perhaps a couple/few targets of ten shots where you don't look at each, keep an even temperament and don't make any judgment as to good/bad anything. If you try it, you must refrain from checking each shot. If the curiosity is too great, try to quell it by visualizing that each shot was fine.

It may not work for you, but be careful of the why. We are very strong willed and we can prove anything we believe whether it be success or failure.
Ed,
I do sometimes shoot unscoped - when I'm shooting precision at longer distances typically. This is because I haven't quite controllled my mental processes to fully ignore the holes in the card and I sometimes let them distract me. What this shows is that I haven't got the mental game sorted. If I had I could check each shot and build up the positives and ignore the poor shots.

In your last post you mention building up good scores by trying to correct for previous poor shots. This is simply you trying to get back into your comfort zone. Exactly the same problem happens if you shoot an extremely high card. You can half consciously (not sure it's subconscious) shoot a poor set to get the average score back into your zone of comfort. This is one of the reasons why adding up scores is a negative mental approach during a comp, or training. It can be hard to do but I try extremely hard to ignore (forget) shots and strings and I'm pleased if at the end of a shoot if I don't know my score as I've concentrated on the doing not the outcome.

Rob.
EdStevens
Posts: 129
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 7:58 am
Location: Ottawa Ontario Canada

Post by EdStevens »

I'm not the Ed being quoted, but I find this area so fascinating that I'm going to chime in here. Our conscious and subconscious are completely interleaved in our mind; together they define the "I" that is us. By definition, we are not consciously aware of our subconscious, but the subconscious is equally important. It does not appear and disappear. It is always there.

We are most aware of the subconscious during physical activities where it has learned what to do: you can't drive a car well, snap your fingers or type quickly on your keyboard without your subconscious mind actually performing the complex activities required. Our subconscious mind learned to walk; we accept that. Beyond that, it also learned to talk and to read and to type -- the very language that we think with in our conscious mind comes, in fact, from our subconscious knowing that language. This is something we rarely consider. You could not read this paragraph (without sounding out each letter and assembling them into words) if it was not for your subconscious transferring this written text to your conscious mind. How can you divide what you think in words in your own conscious mind from that subconscious part of you?

Getting them to work together is the tricky bit; especially for analytical, controlling types like myself. We want to have the conscious ability to shoot a ten every time, but this is impossible. Only our subconcious mind has the physical skill required to do such a complex piece of timing.

Our conscious mind can indeed see the sights align on the ten and command "now", but it is far too slow. By the time it depresses the trigger and the hammer falls, the shot will not be a ten. Our subconscious knows this perfectly well. It obeys the command, but often throws the shot in frustration. It is a very emotional beastie, after all. If you pay attention to your emotions during those last milliseconds, you can usually feel the bad shot every bit as much as you see it. That is your subconscious reaction to being asked to do something (shoot a ten) that it cannot accomplish for whatever reason.

If you are able to trust your subconscious, give it clear goals, provide it with the visual information and physical control it needs to execute, and then stay the hell out of its way all the way through the shot, it is simply remarkable what it will do. And it happens with that zen-like simplicity and clarity that leaves no doubt about the result. Those are the ones where scoping the shot is just confirmation of what you already know.
Ed Hall

Post by Ed Hall »

I'm sure I will get flamed and beaten down for this entire post, but I have high shoulders...

We spend too much time focusing on the programming. Our subconscious can take care of all that if we quit trying to run the show. Every time we consciously decide an aspect has to be just so, our subconscious has to reprogram to meet its new constraints. Acceptance of the hold means to let go of the conscious direction and allow the subconscious to do the work. We do this all the time with great success. Take the computer mouse, for example; a perfect "point and click" shooting device. You choose your target point, move the sight (pointer) to coincidence and fire (click). When you first start out, it's a bit choppy, but after a short time, you become "elite" without even thinking about it.

Move your training to make the most use of your subconscious, so you can "just shoot." I Know, the big question is, "How?"

The big answer... Homework, of course, but in a way to let the subconscious study all the aspects and then work toward giving it the authority to proceed on its own. My initial suggestion is to start with the trigger, since, in my opinion again, it is the single item that can make/break a shot regardless of how perfect everything else is. Study the purity of the trigger without any conscious input after the decision has been given to go ahead. IOW, take the empty (checked multiple times) gun to a safe location and (keeping it pointed in a safe direction) operate the trigger without looking at the gun. Dry Fire in this manner until you have a feel for the true natural operation of the trigger. Study how swiftly it seems to reach its full travel when you aren't concerned about the outcome. Release your control to the subconscious such that you consciously initiate the operation and then move totally to observing the event from afar. This is your natural, subconscious trigger operation. It will probably be extremely consistent at this point, and take less than one second to complete. It will have a definite feel that your subconscious can latch onto. This is the trigger operation to have tucked away in your "programmed" subconscious.

Next, move to pure, natural hold. Start just holding the sights aligned on a blank surface. Really study what the sights look like when compared to each other. Consciously move your focus between the sights and then pick a single area of interest on the front sight. Learn to plant your focus on that single point. It is important to stay on a single point, but widen your perception to include the whole sight outline. An element of speed reading is "span of recognition." This is the same principle and allows you to "see" the entire sight image without flittering your eyes around to different areas of the sights. This also fits in with "quiet eye" studies. You can keep focus by fixating on a single point and following its movement, but if you constantly flit around to the top edge, left side, right side, top edge, etc., every one of those movements requires your eye to check focus. It also changes the position of the image on your retina and causes you to move the sighting system slightly to realign with your new view. Notice that this paragraph's study did not include any trigger activity.

Now, add in a distraction (the bull) - a point of interest on the otherwise blank wall. Some say to work with separate vertical and horizontal lines on the wall to learn how to minimize hold. I'm not disagreeing, and this is a good exercise, but not part of what I'm working on here. For this exercise, simply watch the movement of the sighting system against your new distraction keeping your focus planted on your single point. Expand your span of recognition further to take in the entire natural movement. This is a sticky part for description. Make sure you are observing the natural, totally fluid, pattern of your hold. It will not be the lazy eight so often described. It will have several components which will produce a very complex pattern. If you study it closely enough you will note what some calls "nulls" in the activity. These nulls are when the various frequencies of the pattern move out of resonance with each other and settle your hold to its minimum extent. These nulls will happen several times within a single hold, but only the first or second will be the smallest. This null is your "sweet spot" and when your shot should happen. Study your hold against the distracting bull and let your subconscious take in the full pattern of hold that happens if you just hold the sights over your area of aim.

I must hit again upon how important it is to just hold the sights and let them meander as they see fit. Don't make any adjustment in placement. This is a very tough concept to try to put forth, but make no adjustments at the gun to center the hold. I'm going to try to put this in several different descriptions, because it is hard to communicate the precise message. If you take away the distractor, your hold against the blank wall is happening at a point in space and is natural. This natural hold must be placed into the area of aim with your distractor, such that it naturally hovers over that area with no conscious adjustment. If you are putting the pattern back into your area of aim, you are adding unnatural movement to your hold. This causes a pause in your subconscious process because you are issuing a "wait" order until you "fix" a perceived error. This breaks the natural flow. Work toward allowing the natural hold to hover over your area of aim and allow your subconscious to do the rest. I like to refer to the hovering of the hold over the area of aim as an "environment for success."

You are probably asking, what about when I don't have coincidence with hold and area of aim? This is where all the "rest of story" comes in. All the things like grip, stance and NPA should be used to adjust the orientation of your platform such that there is coincidence of hold with area of aim.

Back to the study. After you've studied the hold both with and without your distraction, start integrating the trigger operation from before. Work both with and without the bull and seek the same feel of the trigger as was learned in the first study above. Don't consciously wait for a particular hold point to start the shot and don't be concerned about how the overall activity looks at first. Just work toward letting your subconscious "feel" the same trigger while you observe the show. It may look terrible to the conscious eye at first, but resist the impulse to consciously correct what you see. Allow the subconscious to study and make necessary adjustments. Your input is to initiate the activity and sit back and watch the show, no matter what the individual outcome from shot to shot may be. The only thing you might consider as conscious input at this time is to visualize the perfect coincidence of null with hammer fall.

Releasing control to the subconscious is very tough, especially in the beginning when the success curve is low, but the rewards are plentiful. Your subconscious, if given the opportunity, will make all the adjustments necessary to start providing a coincidence with the hammer fall and the minimum arc, all by itself. It's similar to telling your team at work that you want a project accomplished and then leaving them alone to solve all the details, instead of "stopping by to help." They do the work - you take the credit. What could be easier?

Flame away...

Take Care,
Ed Hall
http://www.airforceshooting.org/
http://www.geocities.com/ed_ka2fwj/
User avatar
jackh
Posts: 802
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 8:51 pm
Location: Oregon USA

Post by jackh »

Right on Ed. Only comment I have is everyone should forget they ever read the words 'arc of movement'. The connotation of that phrase is wobble on the target. If people can just forget all about the target and seek the best sight alignment they can. That is the front sight-rear sight-eye relationship. Perfect that with their abilities to hold and to see and read the front sight. The steadiness in the aim area will follow and is just the matter of orienting the body to the target. You are right in describing the bullseye as part of the 'span of recogniton'. Other than that recognition, keep the mind off the bull.
The front sight will tell the shooter all about the triggering process if they are really seeing the sight. Really seeing the sight will feed the subconscious all it needs to control the shot.
Post Reply