TargetTalk

ttfn wrote:[quote="
I am also an atty (I practice mostly PI), and I find there are many posts on here that trash what I personally consider to be a good business, great product, and most of these negative posts come without merit or tangible evidence. In some jurisdictions, depending on the case law, some of these people can be liable for deformation.

Happy holidays!

An attorney that does not know the difference between deformation and defamation can hardly define what those limits are.[/quote]

You notice how all the guest posts contain ad hominem attacks? If it is not against Dr Nick's unhappy customers, or Les Baer it is against anyone challenging the utter BS that has been posted on this thread about tracing stolen guns or patent laws and application. I apologize for spelling errors. Fortunately for me, neither the LSAT or the Bar exam tests spelling which I have always been terrible at. :-)

And also a prediction for the new year. The problems with Mountain Competition Pistols will resolve themselves in a couple of years. Bullseye is a very small community and bad customer experiences (or good ones) will get around quickly. I have already heard from several people about many different gun businesses by just standing on the line at Camp Perry. There is no "magic gun" that is going to get you to 2600 or 2650, just like there is no "magic piano" that will get you to Carnegie Hall. :-)

Isabel, it wasn't your misuse of "deformation". We didn't know you couldn't spell.

However, it is a shame that professionals aren't required to master a skill as basic as spelling.
Ben

Hey man, if it was not for spell check I would be dead in the water. But spell check does not do everything. If you type a letter wrong and it is another word, although one with a different meaning, unfortunately spell check buzzes on by. One of the other crimes I would like to confess to, is being a lousy typist. :-)

After my last posting, it seems that most of the responses do not stick to the facts. Facts are a nuisance,I'll admit, they get in the way of fantasy. I suppose the best way to settle this would be to conduct a blind scientific study ( if that were possible). Have Brian Zins shoot an MCP followed by the other pistols that claim to be better, and see which one is actually the best. However, the feel of every pistol is so different that I am sure Zins would know which brand he was shooting. But to not know what pistol you are shooting would eliminate any bias on the part of the shooter.

But then, why would Zins waste his time shooting something that claims to be better rather than shoot something that is better ?

Antoni

I would love to compare the Mtn. Competition Pistol against the other.
But the facts for me are.

May 2009 - sent $1100 as a deposit on a 1911 style 9mm
June 2009 - in a phone conversation with Dr. Nick changed to have the deposit on a Mtn. Competition Beretta

Numerous very pleasant phone conversations occurred after (always me initiating the call). Dr. Nick is a very pleasant and interesting man. Never was a delivery date given. In May of 2010 he told me about setting up his own facilities to produce ammunition so he could have better quality control than Atlanta Arms. (Ammunition w/o guns??)

July 2010 - Met Dr. Nick at Perry, bought some primers from him, where he said things were going well for the next batch of guns and he would contact me soon.

Nov 2010 (now 18 months after my deposit was cashed) - I sent a letter requesting the return of my deposit.

Jan 2011 - still no reply from Dr. Nick

I really wanted one of these guns and up to this point really enjoyed talking with Dr. Nick.
I hope he is successful and that others fare better. I just want my money back now.

I heard that a Les Baer pistol has never won Camp Perry. I heard this but didn't believe it. Does anyone have a list , going back ten years, of the pistols used to win Camp Perry (.45's only) ?

Wouldn't going back 10 years show that most of the winning .45 pistols have been built by Marine Corps armorers?

-- Scott

swehrman wrote:Wouldn't going back 10 years show that most of the winning .45 pistols have been built by Marine Corps armorers?

-- Scott

Yes, pistols built by USMC armorers, and shot by Brian Zins:-)

Gulliver62-Did Dr Nick talk you into changing from a 1911 frame 9mm to a Baretta 9mm?? It is good to see you put this story in the forum-as it serves as a possible warning for other members to consider when purchasing a custom pistol.I still feel if you research a potential gunsmith,for your custom pistol,and you find 2 or 3 complaints on this person-you need to think very carefully about putting an order in with them.

Yes, Dr. Nick is building a few Brigadier slides. He still doesn't have them available yet at this time.

any word from MCP on these slides?

GOVTMODEL wrote:

swehrman wrote:Wouldn't going back 10 years show that most of the winning .45 pistols have been built by Marine Corps armorers?

-- Scott

Yes, pistols built by USMC armorers, and shot by Brian Zins:-)

And now, Brian is promoting Dr. Nick, even with all the complaints. I can't see how the good Dr. is going to be able to handle a flood of new business when it takes so long to get the work done that he has now.

It has been quite a while and still no update mentioned here or on MCP website on the status of Brigadier slides for the M9. Does anyone have a progress report or has he given up? thanks

I talked to Dr. Nick just a few weeks ago about the Brigadier slide. He is busy with other endeavors at this time like Gunny Zins ammo, some sort of govt contract he has. It doesn't look like he will get to the slides until later this year. His new 1911's on his site are awesome to say the least.

Gulliver62,

Did you get your deposit back?

After posting my situation to the former Bullseye-L, my money was returned.

gulliver62 wrote:After posting my situation to the former Bullseye-L, my money was returned.

Man, that is really sucky. The amount of time it takes to build those pistols (by adding the rail system to them) is considerable. While they've been trying to stay on top of the orders, the reality is that 1911 based pistols are the ones leaving the shop the fastest.

This is because they are, to the best of my knowledge, no longer working on other peoples 1911s. MCP is specifically selling NEW pistol, and many of them are being test fired by Brian Zins since he's been spending a fair amount of time at MCP.

So, let's see what's changed since the original start of this tread:

1) MCP no longer works on other people's 1911s, as they can provide you a flawless match Bulls Eye pistol in 9mm or .45. Moreover, they can do it for about the same about of money as it would cost to send in your current 1911 and have the rail system installed along with all the other neat addtions.

2) MCP has significantly increased it's manufacturing base. They now have three locations, two outside of Pittsburg and one in Tannersville (sp) PA.

3) MCP has added a 9 axis CnC milling machine to their collection, and this has significantly increased thier precision output of 1911 pistols. (The full shop has several 3 and 4 axis CnC milling machines, surface grinders, and such as well.)

4) There have been some updates to the website, mostly going over shooter's nutrition (remember, one of Dr Nicks PhDs is in Nutrition). The other going over their manufacturing process verses others.

5) There has been mention about how to deal with the 92SF modifications, and it may be possible for them to start producing their own slides as this point. However, I don't recall the specifics. I do know that it is one of their ultimate goals to produce their own 92SF from scratch, but they are working on another project at the moment... so while this is not on hold, it's certainly taking time.

6) They've begun, after meeting an interesting company at SHOT this year, using a chemical heat treating process that not only adds a black finish to ALL of the steal parts in their 1911s, but also increases the Rockwell Hardness of the parts to 70. It is Dr Nicks belief that at this point barrel bushings will see a service life that may actually be for the life of the firearm.

As a side note, the heat treating process also adds a finish to the INSIDE of the barrels... which greatly reduces fouling. It's nice when technology actually works the way you want it to.

Since the finish actaually enbeds itself into the surface of the metal, it does not alter the dementions of the finished product. Wild, to say the least...

7) Turn around times on 1911 pistols have dramatically decreased. Primarily due to the fact that they now make basically all of their own parts and EVERY pistol that comes off the line is, for all intent and purpose, identical. They use CnC equipment even on the smallest of parts. ...and are now able to keep a stock of completed pistols on hand.

8) Gunny Zins is now working on his own line of match ammunition, and he's doing this in concert wth MCP. So at this point MCP is now recommending Brain Zins' upcoming ammunition line for use in all of their pistols. (This is on their website along with an update to the reloading section.)

9) MCP is continuing to check each and every barrel they use, and they do continue to have a 10-20% rejection rate. From what Dr. Nick has indicated, the barrel is THE most important part for any of his firearms. It MUST group at 1 inch at 50 yards.

10) They also developed a new process for cutting the lower barrel lug with the barrel in battery (in the slide)... That was just neat see...

Like any business it appears that MCP has had growing pains, but it seems like they've gotten the stuff largely in order.

I'm sorta suprised about the length of time it took for your resolution with 92SF delay. I know I'd be annoyed depending on the circumstnaces.

All I can tell anyone is the 1911s are rolling of the assembly line pretty darned fast and with extraodinary precision.

I've been over to the Tannersville location and got to inspect a bunch of the new 1911s (using the new chemical heat treating process). Man, those are some NICE pistols.

GBM, In #1 you say they don't work on other people's guns, but in #7 you say turn around time has been greatly reduced.
If they don't work on guns sent in, how can turn around time be reduced?

I doubt very much that Brian test fires each pistol considering he is presently recovering from an injury and the website says: "At MCP we put EVERY barrel in a barrel tester to see how a barrel groups at 50 yards."
Consequently, I find it hard to believe the rest of what you say is accurate.

I'm still confused by this item from the MCP website:

"The firearms MUST be registered to the person requesting the work. If the firearms is not registered to the requestor, it is a violation of the law and MCP will not work on them."

Who came up with this? With whom is a firearm supposed to be "registered" and which law would be violated if it were not?

Freepistol wrote:GBM, In #1 you say they don't work on other people's guns, but in #7 you say turn around time has been greatly reduced.
If they don't work on guns sent in, how can turn around time be reduced?

I doubt very much that Brian test fires each pistol considering he is presently recovering from an injury and the website says: "At MCP we put EVERY barrel in a barrel tester to see how a barrel groups at 50 yards[/url][/url]."
Consequently, I find it hard to believe the rest of what you say is accurate.

I seems you were looking for fault with my post, but I'll restate it.

A logical person would conclude:

If MCP is no longer working on other people's 45s (1911s), THEN turn around time is faster because they are producing NEW 1911s, which they stock and sell for a similar amount as if you had provided them your current 1911.

That's greatly reduced turnaround time. Period.

BTW: They can do that because they aren't spending 20+ hours per pistol working on a gun someone sent them. So you aren't paying an hourly rate for gunsmithing work.

If you send your pistol to most of the well know companies (eg gunsmiths) out there, you are LUCKY if you get it back in a year. A few even have turnaround time in YEARS. I've read this in plenty of places on the internet and it's been common for years that if you want a custom pistol, you have to wait.

Also, I did not say that the Gunny was testing every single gun, I don't know where you got that. The web site, for example, indicates that there is a good chance he may have, and that's what I said as well.

Stuff happens, if he's got an injury, then he's got an injury. I'm fairly certain unless he had some tragic parachuting accident he's still able to get around and do basic stuff, but its logical that he could be taking it easy if what you say it true. I sincerely hope he's OK.

In so far as the barrel tester... it's a proprietary piece of hardware that is registered with the ATF as a firearm, and uses a lanyard to fire. If the Gunny wishes to help barrel test, he could use his teeth to pull the lanyard. I have no idea; I haven't spoken with MCP in a few weeks. In general, when the Gunny is around the shop, he's helps test, develop, and QC stuff.

You'd have to call MCP if you want to know who's doing what on a given day or if a specific pistol you purchased was tested by Brian Zins.

To the other poster:

My understanding is that there have been instances where someone sent MCP a handgun was dumb enough to mention that they don't own the firearm they sent MCP or bought it off the street, etc... The ATF has requested that in those circumstances they be notified.

...and that's why that statement is on the site. I get the impression that MCP would rather not have to deal with these situations.

PS... WHOOPS, I stand corrected... the health and nutrition part of hte site has not need updated.