TargetTalk

556 wrote:I have started hunting!
You have to excuse for my lack of knowledge, but the shooting in Rio in 2008 is not listed as a World Cup in the ISSF calendar for 2008:
http://www.issf-shooting.com/default.as ... =10&inst=1

Can you help me here?

I have just followed that link and, after changing to 2008, see the Rio de Janeiro World Cup listed 21-29 March.

It is also shown as such on ISSFTV and also copies of the ISSF 2008 calendar I downloaded in 2007.

What's the problem?

Yes, it was a World Cup, I also followed it last year.

Maura GENOVESI won silver in 25m Women using an MG2.

May be Matchguns should do like Morini, i.e. listing on their website the results obtained in OG, WC... with their pistols.

jipe wrote: May be Matchguns should do like Morini, i.e. listing on their website the results obtained in OG, WC... with their pistols.

That is a good way for MG to promote their guns.
The Matchguns firm is not much exposed at the international ISSF scenes.

It is a small company, laboring to compete with the larger ones. Hope they will gain more attention.

Four MG2s shot finals in 2008.

2008 Rio de Janeiro World Cup Final:
In rapid Fire: Thibaut Sauvage from France.
Also in 25m Pistol Women: Brigitte Roy from France.

2008 World Cup Final Milan Italy:
In Rapid Fire: Jorge LLames from Spain
Also in 25m Pistol Women: Maura Genovesi from Italy.

You can see the videos in the ISSF.TV

Julio

jipe wrote:Yes, it was a World Cup, I also followed it last year.

Maura GENOVESI wont silver in 25m Women using an MG2.

May be Matchguns should do like Morini, i.e. listing on their website the results obtained in OG, WC... with their pistols.

That would be a good idea, especially to get their name out there and to somewhat combat the impression that their pistols are very unreliable.

Last evening, I fired my MG2 for the first time after the last (third) rebuild, performed by the importer:
70 shots, ;- encouraging behavior of the MG2. Two minor jams only: two horisontal stovepipes at ejection of last spent case, case mouth pointing to the right. Occured at last round of first (sighter) string, and last round of 7. string.
Ammo was Eley Standard (brown label).
Hence, I did not have to reshoot any string! That is a leap in reliability for my MG2. This was an informal club match, and the first match, formal, or informal, this gun have made it through for å very long time.

Encouraging :-)

- - - - - - -
Received my new CM22 RF alu from postal services earlier the same day.
Fired another 70 shots;- no jams...
The second slow fire string was an opportunistic 50, btw. (Remember, I do not shoot 50 strings that very often...)

Very light weight (counterweight-rail only mounted, no weights added yet), bolt very fast cycling at firing.
The gun featured a disturbingly narrow front blade.

Grip size was small (as ordered), and the outermost part of the grip, just above the trigger, forced my trigger-finger tip down to an inconvinient position to the lowermost part of the triggerblade. I will have to do some grip adjustments here.

But, I repeat, no jams.
Ammo used were Eley Standard (brown label) and some old CCI Standard (hvite and light blue box, pretty hot stuff for a standard vel cartridge).

MG2-owner wrote:Very light weight (counterweight-rail only mounted, no weights added yet),

I also started without weigths: too ligthweight => added a first weight, not enough. Since a long time now, I have two additional weights what for me gives both a good weigth and good balance.

For the grip, when I tried the pistol before buying it, I didn't like so much the original grip => I bougth the pistol without grip and put a Rink grip on it. Rink has a special grip for the CM22M RF that puts the gun as low in the hand as the original Morini grip.

jipe wrote: I also started without weigths: too ligthweight => added a first weight, not enough. Since a long time now, I have two additional weights what for me gives both a good weigth and good balance.

Yes, I added one of the square weights in forward position during dryfiring last night.
Adjusted trigger:
from factory the triggerstop was set very tight, about no travel after letoff. I now have 2 mm after-travel of trigger. What is your opinion on this topic, "Jipe"?

Second trigger stage was set a bit heavy from factory, - I adjusted 1. stage heavier, second lighter.

My CM22 RF arrived via Gehman. The guns weights only 850 grams (with rail, no extra weights). Very light, gives a unstraining hold.
Thanks to the very low bore-line, lift of gun from recoil was no more (less?) than from other more conventional .22 guns that are 200 to 250 gram heavier.

Serial number of mine was very low: 0013x-A
Instruction booklet, btw, was for the CM 22 M. So, some part numbers listed in the booklet may not be correct for my gun.
Weight listed for CM22 Alu in booklet was 950 grams. The RF version is then some 100 grams (3.3 oz) lighter.

I forgot to mention that the two weights are in forward position.

Indeed, the pistol weight is very low. The documentation (and website) of Morini do not mention the CM22M RF specifications. I have no documentation for the RF version, I wonder if it exists ?

The trigger is one of the reasons why I choose the CM22M RF, it is really excellent.

The grip rake similar to a modern AP was another reason to go for the CM22M RF. The last years, I only shoot ISSF pistol type of events => I am not more used to more vertical grip position.

Previously, I was using a GSP expert, the difference for these three points, weight, trigger and rake is huge.

The pistol is also very stable, no more muzzle jump than the Pardini that is much more heavy and noze heavy with its huge nozzle weight.

I didn't really modify the trigger adjustments, they were pretty good. My pistol comes from the belgian Morini importer and is a very low serial number, i.e. <00050.

I have read nearly everything I can find about the MG2 and concur with most of the people on this forum.

There is so much negativity out there about this gun, but what people are forgetting is that it is a revolutionary design, it is still immature when compared to the Pardini's, Fas, Uniques / domino's etc. Think about, they have been refining the exactly same design since mmm about 1908. I currently shoot a Domino *about 35 years old* but guess what with a lick of paint and a nice clean up, maybe a rink grip it will shoot almost as well as the new ones, can shoot 540's with it and that is without any customisations to grip or trigger. And it essentially still has the same mechanisms as the new ones, mag is the same, trigger the same, only it is made of steel and not plastic.

Well Matchguns have changed the design, I wonder if there will be teething problems. Of course there will, and over the last few years most of these have been resolved. Initially yes there has been problems with the gun, however MatchGuns have rectified most of the issues free of charge (parts) but still in my book that is a great effort.

The simple fact is that everybody that I have spoken to that has actually SHOT the MG2 loves the gun.

I am getting one!

At this point in development I would consider it to be "the" gun to buy.
....it is definately a sweet thing to use, and the factory backup is exceptional.

Well I've obviously got too much time on my hands because I've just gone back through this complete thread looking at who was complaining about the MG2.

It's interesting to note that apart from Bob Riegl (now shown as "deleted1") and Diopter (who reported faults but I'm not sure whether he was actually complaining), all of the complaints about MG/MG2 have come from:-

Guest "MG2-Owner"
Guest "Josef"
Guest "Guest"
Guest "Ralf"
Guest "Mad Max"
Guest "Josh"

I don't think I missed any, apologies if I did.

Anybody will agree that the MG2 is a very innovative design. As an engineer, I find it an amazing pistol.

But as a shooter, what benefit does this design bring compared to more state of the art designs like the Pardini or Morini ?

I must say that I had the same question about the SSP but I could answer it myself: I have tried the SSP and it shoot quite well (I had no problemes with it but it was just a test, not comparable to the experience of the owner of the pistol) but I didn't feel any real breaktrough compared to the Pardini or Morini. It is even the opposite for the trigger that is for me much better on the Morini.

I couldn't try the MG2 (no importer anymore for it in my country) so I wonder if it is real breaktrough in term of shooting performances compared to the others.

Concerning the accuracy, there was recently a test in Visier of all current .22lr match pistols and the most accurate were the two Pardini (SP new and SP1, far away from all others with all ammunitions tested and there was a big list), followed by the AW93 and then all the others (TS22, CM22M, SP20, GSP, SSP, MG2, MP90) with more of less the same accuracy. So there was no evidence that a longer barrel improves the accuracy (Pardini has a relatively short barrel, AW93 has the longest allowed like the MG2 and SSP).

Stop speculating, and get one. In terms of recoil recovery, the MG2 beats every other pistol hands down. Precision isn't the point.

jipe wrote:Anybody will agree that the MG2 is a very innovative design. As an engineer, I find it an amazing pistol.

But as a shooter, what benefit does this design bring compared to more state of the art designs like the Pardini or Morini ?
.

Just a question Jipe, what makes the Pardini "more state of the art"?

You may think its more reliable but theres is nothing about it that make it state of the the art.

If you're talking about the testes that I think you are being bolted into a vice really doesn't due just to what makes the MG2 and SSP state of the art, unless of course they plan on changing the rules.

Tycho



Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Posts: 360
Location: Switzerland
Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 12:37 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Stop speculating, and get one. In terms of recoil recovery, the MG2 beats every other pistol hands down. Precision isn't the point.

I believe this is the most appropriate statement I have read regarding these pistols.

Richard H wrote:

jipe wrote:Anybody will agree that the MG2 is a very innovative design. As an engineer, I find it an amazing pistol.

But as a shooter, what benefit does this design bring compared to more state of the art designs like the Pardini or Morini ?
.

Just a question Jipe, what makes the Pardini "more state of the art"?

You may think its more reliable but theres is nothing about it that make it state of the the art.

If you're talking about the testes that I think you are being bolted into a vice really doesn't due just to what makes the MG2 and SSP state of the art, unless of course they plan on changing the rules.

I think that there is a misunderstanding about the words "state of the art". This is the opposite to innovative, it means that the Pardini and Morini (and others like Tesro...) are the up to date classical pistol design while both SSP and MG2 have disruptive innovations.

One of the arguments used for both pistol is that their design allows to have the maximum authorized barrel length while pistols like the Pardini, Morini, GSP, Tesro with the magazine in front of the trigger cannot have that maximum allowed barrel length without having a too long total length.

The "problem" is that both from the accuracy and bullet speed point of view, the Visier tests show that having the maximum allowed barrel length doesn't bring obvious benefit: the most accurate pistol has a relatively short barrel, the second one has the maximum length, a group of pistols with mixed length have more or less similar accuracy, same for the bullet speed.

The other benefit of the MG2 is that its design allows to have both the maximum allowed barrel length and no magazine in the grip giving a maximum freedom in grip shape and rake, the same is possible with pistols with the magazine in front of the trigger but at the expense of having a shorter barrel. Other pistol with the long barrel have the magazine in the grip like the AW93, SSP, IZH35... i.e. most other pistols having the long barrel.

For recoil recovery, the SSP and CM22M RF are also very fast. Note that the top RF shooters still use a Pardini and that SSP was successful in the 25m women event at the OG. Indeed, Thibaut SAUVAGE succeeded in RF with an MG2.

About getting an MG2, still no importer in my country (there was one, he stopped importing Matchguns about two years ago) only the possibility to ask a gunshop to import one piece without possibility to try it before buying it and with very little after sale support (no spare parts in stock, no pistol knowledge from the ginshop...). I do not buy a match pistol (whatever the brand) without local support.

[quote="David Levene"]
It's interesting to note that apart from Bob Riegl (now shown as "deleted1") and Diopter (who reported faults but I'm not sure whether he was actually complaining), all of the complaints about MG/MG2 have come from:-


My intent was the original one of this post- "MG2 Troubles.. need some brainstorming" - meaning, looking for, and giving solutions to help owners get it working, or to help zero in on the real problem(s).

The one in my possession is actual for a friend of mine who is still waiting for his "handgun license" to be processed and received before the pistol can be transferred to his ownership. He is pretty much a beginner with handguns and would be completely out of his depth to try to figure out the problems on his own. Hopefully he'll have a reliable gun when the time comes.

This one had/has at least two problems at the same time, which make the trouble shooting more difficult and frustrating.

1)Hammer following slide- fixed by stretching out the sear spring in the slide cover.
2) Extractor sometimes not engaging rim of brass, leaving case in chamber as the next round is trying to occupy the same space in the chamber. I still have to find a drift punch or used drill bit small enough to get the cross pin out to check it out.
3) Bullet decapitation- most likely related to #2, but Stefano is sending a new bullet carrier just in case. Thanks Stephano.

Another thing that happened recently. After removing bullet carrier to clean and inspect for cracks i couldn't get the slide to go back all the way.
Turns out the cross pin was not pushed in far enough and prevented the slide from completing it's rearward travel. My fault.

Complaining? No.
Just looking for solutions.

I do really like the feel of the pistol. It's somewhat of a cross between my Pardini SP New and IZH35m. The only real complaint so far is that it is more complicated to clear a jam. Would not recommend it to a beginner, too much possibility of them pointing the muzzle in the wrong directions while trying to clear a problem case. Use the safety first before doing anything else, then take out mag and drop out the loaded round from the bullet carrier.

diopter wrote:

David Levene wrote: .......and Diopter (who reported faults but I'm not sure whether he was actually complaining)....

My intent was the original one of this post- "MG2 Troubles.. need some brainstorming" - meaning, looking for, and giving solutions to help owners get it working, or to help zero in on the real problem(s).
.......
Complaining? No.
Just looking for solutions.

That was the impression I got, thanks for clarifying.

jipe wrote:
I think that there is a misunderstanding about the words "state of the art". This is the opposite to innovative, it means that the Pardini and Morini (and others like Tesro...) are the up to date classical pistol design while both SSP and MG2 have disruptive innovations.

I do say there is a difference, your definition is one I'm unfamilar with, I use the term in it's dictionary meaning;

State of the art the most recent stage in the development of a product, incorporating the newest ideas and the most up-to-date features. • [as adj. ] incorporating the newest ideas and the most up-to-date features


Either it's classical or state of the art and Pardini is classical, it's not state of the art.

As for the SSP or MG2 having "disruptive innovations", I guess that's your personal opinion. What exactly is disruptive about their innovations?

jipe wrote:One of the arguments used for both pistol is that their design allows to have the maximum authorized barrel length while pistols like the Pardini, Morini, GSP, Tesro with the magazine in front of the trigger cannot have that maximum allowed barrel length without having a too long total length.

The "problem" is that both from the accuracy and bullet speed point of view, the Visier tests show that having the maximum allowed barrel length doesn't bring obvious benefit: the most accurate pistol has a relatively short barrel, the second one has the maximum length, a group of pistols with mixed length have more or less similar accuracy, same for the bullet speed.

I agree over 25m the extra length of the .22 barrel does not make a difference that said over the NRA 50 yd course it does and it makes an even bigger difference in .32

jipe wrote:For recoil recovery, the SSP and CM22M RF are also very fast. Note that the top RF shooters still use a Pardini and that SSP was successful in the 25m women event at the OG. Indeed, Thibaut SAUVAGE succeeded in RF with an MG2.

Thats fine but the pistol was released and refined in the last quadrennial. So judging the pistol upon the use by top shooters is not really valid. I suspect you will see more now. Top shooters don't jump from pistol to pistol, they train to do better (not look for that magic technology that will do it for them). You're already starting to see more.

jipe wrote:About getting an MG2, still no importer in my country (there was one, he stopped importing Matchguns about two years ago) only the possibility to ask a gunshop to import one piece without possibility to try it before buying it and with very little after sale support (no spare parts in stock, no pistol knowledge from the ginshop...). I do not buy a match pistol (whatever the brand) without local support.

That Jipe is at least one thing that I agree with, if you don't have support or can't support it yourself don't buy it.