Starting at .22 rifle team in Ga....have a couple of questions. I ask all these questions in the reasoning that we are just starting from scratch. This will be a learning year indeed.
1) What rifles are the "norm" in these competitions. We're just starting so are there 4 or 5 rifles that are common in these events? Will a Ruger 10/22 semi-auto compete at this level?
2) In the scope division, what scopes to go with these guns? What are preferred? I know you go up to 6X.
Any help is much appreciated.
Coach in Georgia
4H .22 rifle competition questions
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Freepistol
- Posts: 773
- Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2008 5:52 pm
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1. I wouldn't recommend a semi-auto. Pinched fingers come to mind first and then students having a competition to see who can shoot the quickest. Kids will learn best with a single shot .22 or air rifles may prove even better.
2. The club where I instructed had the Remington 513T. Any bolt action single shot .22 will probably work, however, I have been out of the loop on rifles for a number of years so I can't suggest a newer rifle.
Good luck!
Ben
2. The club where I instructed had the Remington 513T. Any bolt action single shot .22 will probably work, however, I have been out of the loop on rifles for a number of years so I can't suggest a newer rifle.
Good luck!
Ben
The 4H competitions in each state are different. You really need to read the programs of the matches that you are considering to know what you can use. Also, it would help you to talk to someone that has attended the matches. If you are considering non-4H competitions you will need to check the individual rules for those.
In Virginia for our 4H state shoot we have three .22 rifle categories, light rifle (<8.5 lbs) with any sights (telescopic or dot), light rifle with iron sights and match rifle (>8.5lbs) with iron sights. The most popular is the light rifle with any sights (~50%), followed by light rifle with iron sights (~40%), with match rifle a distant third. The light rifles tend to be about half semi-auto and half bolt action.
In Virginia for our 4H state shoot we have three .22 rifle categories, light rifle (<8.5 lbs) with any sights (telescopic or dot), light rifle with iron sights and match rifle (>8.5lbs) with iron sights. The most popular is the light rifle with any sights (~50%), followed by light rifle with iron sights (~40%), with match rifle a distant third. The light rifles tend to be about half semi-auto and half bolt action.
Try as hard as you can to get your state to follow the 4-H National Rules.
Get the Event Synopsis at: http://www.4-hshootingsports.org/
I really feel bad for kids that show up to Nationals with 1) no idea of the rules they will be shooting under and 2) wrong equipment ... while both are in the end their responsbility to know ... the project leaders and state leaders are somewhat responsible as well.
1) The .22 rifle 3-Position event is an NRA "any rifle" event with iron sights. That means your kids will be competing against olympic style rifles. Other rifles will do well too. I start my shooters out with Izhmash CM-2's for right handers and have Marlin-2000's for leftys. My daughter shoots an Anschutz 1912 in her precision gear as the rules allow this.
2) The .22 rifle silhouette event is what you would think of as an NRA "heavy" (not hunting) rifle event .... rifles up to 10 lbs-2oz. We use Remington-813's and Kimber 82-G's. Many kids also use CZ-452s ...
10lb-2oz means you can do almost any .22. As an example again, my oldest daughter uses a Kimber 52-G with a 36X scope
3) The CMP Rimfire Sporter event limits the weight of the rifle with sights to 7-1/2 lbs and is a 3-position slow/rapid fire event. I tend to like the 10-22 for this event, but there are many rifles which you can mount a light scope on and make this weight. If your kids practice with it a 10-22 is fine, but if they don't practice a lot, a bolt action, clip fed may be better. Scopes here are not as critical ..... a nice 3-9X taped at 6X is fine.
I also like to have spotting scopes to sight in with (on #1 & 3) that they can see the holes in the targets at 50m. We've found that the Celestron 50mm zoom with 45' eyepiece is VERY good for this (P/N:52232). You should be able to find these for less than $100
If your rifle is light enough you could easily use the same one in #2 & 3 above, but you do not have a lot of range time (at nationals) to resight-in the rifles between the events.
My personal preference is that the kids have 3 guns, one of each event.
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I should comment on PaulB's response as well. In NM we have shooters that basically group into the rifle categories as does VA, but we use National rules so all compete against each other .... just by looking at our state match scores you can tell the differences.
I know it's hard, in terms of dollars, to equip correctly. I, as a coach feel terrible if I have to send a kid up against a better equipped kid when I know their potential is limited by the equipment. (If they only come to one practice per year, then any old rifle will do)
We are VERY fortunate here in NM with our NRA Foundation dollars going to primarily YOUTH programs .... JROTC, 4-H, Scouts, & Summer Camps are big receivers.
The funding and equipment don't come overnight ... I've been at this 5 years now, and finally have what I consider I need to run decent programs. Maybe I'm lucky (???) in that I have 3 kids that will spread my time out in this to about 10 years, so I thought, and continue to think long term
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One more suggestion: Incorporate an Air Rifle program as well ... the training is the same and carries over. You can shoot Air 90% of the time all year round indoors for a LOT less money than .22.
I hold 3 practices per week ... Air on Tues & Thurs and then alternate Sundays of Air & 22. Right now most of the kids make 1-2 per week ... I don't really expect them to make all three, but certain times of the year, the really serious ones will
Get the Event Synopsis at: http://www.4-hshootingsports.org/
I really feel bad for kids that show up to Nationals with 1) no idea of the rules they will be shooting under and 2) wrong equipment ... while both are in the end their responsbility to know ... the project leaders and state leaders are somewhat responsible as well.
1) The .22 rifle 3-Position event is an NRA "any rifle" event with iron sights. That means your kids will be competing against olympic style rifles. Other rifles will do well too. I start my shooters out with Izhmash CM-2's for right handers and have Marlin-2000's for leftys. My daughter shoots an Anschutz 1912 in her precision gear as the rules allow this.
2) The .22 rifle silhouette event is what you would think of as an NRA "heavy" (not hunting) rifle event .... rifles up to 10 lbs-2oz. We use Remington-813's and Kimber 82-G's. Many kids also use CZ-452s ...
10lb-2oz means you can do almost any .22. As an example again, my oldest daughter uses a Kimber 52-G with a 36X scope
3) The CMP Rimfire Sporter event limits the weight of the rifle with sights to 7-1/2 lbs and is a 3-position slow/rapid fire event. I tend to like the 10-22 for this event, but there are many rifles which you can mount a light scope on and make this weight. If your kids practice with it a 10-22 is fine, but if they don't practice a lot, a bolt action, clip fed may be better. Scopes here are not as critical ..... a nice 3-9X taped at 6X is fine.
I also like to have spotting scopes to sight in with (on #1 & 3) that they can see the holes in the targets at 50m. We've found that the Celestron 50mm zoom with 45' eyepiece is VERY good for this (P/N:52232). You should be able to find these for less than $100
If your rifle is light enough you could easily use the same one in #2 & 3 above, but you do not have a lot of range time (at nationals) to resight-in the rifles between the events.
My personal preference is that the kids have 3 guns, one of each event.
================
I should comment on PaulB's response as well. In NM we have shooters that basically group into the rifle categories as does VA, but we use National rules so all compete against each other .... just by looking at our state match scores you can tell the differences.
I know it's hard, in terms of dollars, to equip correctly. I, as a coach feel terrible if I have to send a kid up against a better equipped kid when I know their potential is limited by the equipment. (If they only come to one practice per year, then any old rifle will do)
We are VERY fortunate here in NM with our NRA Foundation dollars going to primarily YOUTH programs .... JROTC, 4-H, Scouts, & Summer Camps are big receivers.
The funding and equipment don't come overnight ... I've been at this 5 years now, and finally have what I consider I need to run decent programs. Maybe I'm lucky (???) in that I have 3 kids that will spread my time out in this to about 10 years, so I thought, and continue to think long term
================
One more suggestion: Incorporate an Air Rifle program as well ... the training is the same and carries over. You can shoot Air 90% of the time all year round indoors for a LOT less money than .22.
I hold 3 practices per week ... Air on Tues & Thurs and then alternate Sundays of Air & 22. Right now most of the kids make 1-2 per week ... I don't really expect them to make all three, but certain times of the year, the really serious ones will
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New Coach
Ok....The GA 4H use the Sporter Rimfire match rules - a precision round and a rapid fire round with positions in prone, sitting or kneeling and standing. The prone and sitting/kneeling shoot at 50 yds and the standing is at 25 yds.. The rifles can have a maximum weight of 7.5 lbs and trigger pull set at 3#. No fluted barrels, no adjustable stocks, no adjustable sling swivels or hand stops, no special clothes. Those are the bascis to the Georgia state match with 4H.
So does the National 4H match have different guide lines? Different equipment rules?
Also, I only have 3 kids (all girls) signed up and they have partcipated in the BB programs I coached for the last 4 years. They're just moving up to .22 because they don't want to shoot skeet/trap and I agreed to move up with them and start the .22 program. It will be a learning year for me and them.
Thanks for the help so far!
So does the National 4H match have different guide lines? Different equipment rules?
Also, I only have 3 kids (all girls) signed up and they have partcipated in the BB programs I coached for the last 4 years. They're just moving up to .22 because they don't want to shoot skeet/trap and I agreed to move up with them and start the .22 program. It will be a learning year for me and them.
Thanks for the help so far!
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New Coach
OK .... maybe I'm misunderstanding ...
In the Nationals your kids will shoot ALL three events.
1) NRA smallbore 3-P - any rifle
2) NRA smallbore Silhouette - 10lb-2oz max weight
---and---
3) CMP Rimfire sporter
One each day of the three day match.
Sounds to me that you are only shooting the Rimfire Sporter in GA. If so you need to have the kids start practicing all three
The link I posted previously will get you to the 4-H Nationals website where you can download the event synopsis which has the summary of the rules for all three events.
Or hit here: http://www.vc4hss.com/22_Rifle/index.htm
Does that help?
In the Nationals your kids will shoot ALL three events.
1) NRA smallbore 3-P - any rifle
2) NRA smallbore Silhouette - 10lb-2oz max weight
---and---
3) CMP Rimfire sporter
One each day of the three day match.
Sounds to me that you are only shooting the Rimfire Sporter in GA. If so you need to have the kids start practicing all three
The link I posted previously will get you to the 4-H Nationals website where you can download the event synopsis which has the summary of the rules for all three events.
Or hit here: http://www.vc4hss.com/22_Rifle/index.htm
Does that help?
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jcinadr
Our 4h club does a fair about of state level competition (30 or so competed at last years State Games) - I think we had 6 compete at nationals last year (mostly (if not all) competed in black powder).
The majority of club guns are Anshultz (various size/model - but their are mostly Achievers, and I suspect several more of it's replacement), a few small Savage (for smaller shooters), a couple of the target Savage (mostly because they have a good deal going through the CMP, and we could not find a great Anshultz deal last year), and a couple of 10/22's for CMP.
I think except for the CMP 10/22's, all our club guns are aperture sights. Club members also can shoot their own guns, some of which are scoped. There are a decent number of members who have their own Anshultz - which also represents a decent percentage of our shooters at the State Games. We do not have any members who shoot full Olympic rifles.
The majority of club guns are Anshultz (various size/model - but their are mostly Achievers, and I suspect several more of it's replacement), a few small Savage (for smaller shooters), a couple of the target Savage (mostly because they have a good deal going through the CMP, and we could not find a great Anshultz deal last year), and a couple of 10/22's for CMP.
I think except for the CMP 10/22's, all our club guns are aperture sights. Club members also can shoot their own guns, some of which are scoped. There are a decent number of members who have their own Anshultz - which also represents a decent percentage of our shooters at the State Games. We do not have any members who shoot full Olympic rifles.
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New Coach
Yes.....in Georgia 4H, we're only shooting the CMP rimfine sporter matches. Just trying to get a feel on equipment needed.
I'm thinking of getting her a Ruger 10/22 long barrelled with synthetic stock unless there is something better for these comps. Not sure on the scope yet. Thanks for all the help so far.
I'm thinking of getting her a Ruger 10/22 long barrelled with synthetic stock unless there is something better for these comps. Not sure on the scope yet. Thanks for all the help so far.
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HAIREACANE
.22 Rifle Match
Hey New Coach,
Georgia will have a free Sporter .22 rifle class at Rock Eagle 4-H camp Saturday, November 22 at 12:30. If you'll e-mail me at:david.haire@tiftcounty.org I'll be glad to send you the information about the seminar.
I'm one of the state rifle instructors and the state air pistol instructors for 4-H and I'm going to be there to learn about the NRA Sporter Rifle program. We offer Air Pistol, Air Rifle and B.B. Rifle and are thinking about adding .22 but I currently have 40 kids so I looking for a parent who has their state rifle certification to head up the program.
Hope to see you Saturday.
David Haire
Tift County, Ga. 4-H
Georgia will have a free Sporter .22 rifle class at Rock Eagle 4-H camp Saturday, November 22 at 12:30. If you'll e-mail me at:david.haire@tiftcounty.org I'll be glad to send you the information about the seminar.
I'm one of the state rifle instructors and the state air pistol instructors for 4-H and I'm going to be there to learn about the NRA Sporter Rifle program. We offer Air Pistol, Air Rifle and B.B. Rifle and are thinking about adding .22 but I currently have 40 kids so I looking for a parent who has their state rifle certification to head up the program.
Hope to see you Saturday.
David Haire
Tift County, Ga. 4-H
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CrispCoach
Hey David......I'll be there Saturday with Nikki. I'm going to "try" and start a.22 program here in Crisp Co. Nikki wants to shoot .22's so we'll see how it turns out. I'll be in a learning mode Saturday and asking a zillion questions. I'm still at the point of what guns should kids get, scopes, etc. See you there Saturday.
David T. Smith
Crisp Co. Shooting Sports
David T. Smith
Crisp Co. Shooting Sports