Do you bench zero your pistol?

[Guest]

Today my shots are all over the place.

Not shooting well initially, so I blame the accuracy of the pistol. A few clicks here, a few clicks there did not improve the situation. More clicks here and more clicks there did not improve the situation. Then a lot of clicks here and a lot of clicks there, shots are all over the place.

Losing my confidence in myself and in my pistol, I decide to bench zero the pistol. Once I bench zeroed, the free hand shots are much better.

But I remember some coach had said that bench zero is a no-no.

Is it really a no-no?

[Freepistol]

For me there are 2 no-nos.
1. The recoil pattern of a benched pistol can be different enough to have an impact changed when you go back to holding the pistol properly.
2. You will not be allowed to bench the pistol in a match when on the sighter target so it is best to learn how to recognize when the pistol is sighted properly when holding the pistol according to the rules.

[Guest]

I rested pistol on a piece of sponge, so recoil is minimal.

My angle to target is slight downward aim to emulate slight downward aim to target freehand.

So bench zero is all right then? I was just losing my confidence in my clicks for zeroing.

[Ken O]

Yep, I do it, but in a different way. I use the bag to rest my wrist in just to steady it to adjust the sights. Then after shooting it normally I can make finale adjustments to the sights.

[2650 Plus]

On the initial zero I shoot a full 10 shot group and then center the group. I shoot another 10 shot group to verify that my sight changes moved my group to center. I don't remember ever trying to zero off a rest of any sort. I have also shot as many as 50 rounds on one target and then. made a minor adjustment if the hole in the target is just a little off center. In competition I have made a sight change based solely on how far the strike of the bullet was off call,.but this was based on perfect confidence that my call was correct. I found that the extra rounds were especially important when firing the old duel target starting fron the proper down gun position. Good Shooting Bill Horton

[Gwhite]

Testing off a bench is a good way to check for a problem with the pistol, but not as a method of fine tuning your sights. My wife had a problem with her Pardini a while back, with shots going all over the place. We quickly sorted out that they STILL went all over the place off the bench, which led us to discover that her barrel bolt had worked loose.

The pistol will move in recoil (at least a little) before the bullet leaves the barrel. Any change in how the pistol is supported can introduce a change in the point of impact relative to the sights. Depending on how good a shot you are, you may not be able to detect the difference. If you support your wrist or hand rather than the pistol, it helps to reduce the error. As a guess, you should be able to adjust your sights well enough off the bench to keep the center of your group in the 9-ring (or better) shooting normally. You will then have to fine tune things from there, holding the pistol the way you usually do.

[David Levene]

Is it really a no-no?

It's not really a no-no (except obviously in competition) but, IMHO, it doesn't really tell you much about how your sights should be adjusted.

Zeroing the sights from a bench only tells you where your sights should be set for shooting from a bench. That may or may not be the same as where they need to be set for normal un-rested shooting.

If, as you say, the shots were "all over the place" then that is nothing to do with the sight adjustment. It's either bad performance/technique or something wrong with the gun/ammunition (or a combination of these).

Don't wear your sights out chasing a non-group; look for the real cause.

[Richard H]

Zeroing the pistol isn't going to help the grouping, you said the shots were all over, the sight don't make them go "all over" you do. So how would zeroing the sights on a bench help?

Benching the gun would help diagnose a problem with the pistol but it useless for adjusting the sights.

[Ozshooter]

The shots "could" go all over for reasons other than those contributed by the shooter! Any number of problems from loose sights to unsuitable ammunition may cause this. I agree with the comments re the correct way to sight the pistol for pistol shooting is holding the pistol as you would for a match but if the shots are still wayward then shooting over a rest, say a brick with a sandbag resting on top or even a rolled up towel could eliminate the hardware from the equation.

To check the sights off-shand why not try this process?

• Shoot 10 or 15 shots
  Determine the centre of the group with a ruler
  Move the sights 20 clicks up or down AND left or right (use 10 if the sight adjustment is coarse)
  Shoot another 10 or 15 shots
  Determine the centre of the new group.
  Measure the vertical and lateral distance between the 2 centres
  The distance the group moves vertically and laterally divided by 20 (or 10 if you adjusted 10 clicks) is the distance the shot moves per click for elevation (vertical) and windage (lateral).
  Remember this number, write it down somewhere!
  Measure the vertical and lateral distance between the centre of the target and the centre of the 2nd group
  Adjust the sights the appropriate number of clicks to centre the group on the target.
  Fire another 10 shots and re-adjust slightly if necesssary.

Cheers
Pete

[pgfaini]

The only times my pistols see a bench, is when set up in my Ransom Rest, to test ammo, or when accurizing a 1911. The rest of the time, if I can't solve a problem with grip/pointing/aiming, I just adjust my sights to the center of the group, and go with that. This was one of the things I liked about the Sius Ascor targets at Wolf Creek, they gave you the group center on the monitor.
Paul

[ausdiver99]

Marvelous things those electronics, we can only dream about them downunder. One full set at SISC and another full 50 metre range + 8 10 metre sets at MISC (Olympic and Comm games venues respectively) and thats it I think. For the rest its paper targets, patches and plenty of exercise rain or shine :-).

[tenex]

I've had very good success bench zeroing my Pardini. I do know people that have measurable differences in zero from bench to offhand, but I've had no problems with this gun. I do rest only the front of the gun on a sandbag, and try not to put the butt of the gun on a hard surface. The gun does have a red dot however, and it's much easier to sight in and spot targets than iron sights.

To sight in my air pistol with iron sights, I shoot a 60 round match and record all the shot positions (I wrote some software to record the shots), then I move the sights to center the group. You'd be surprised at how many times I would shoot a 10 shot group 2 clicks to the left, and then a group a click or two to the right. If i chased the sights after every 3 or 4 shots, I'd go berserk.

Steve.

P.S. I probably couldn't bench my .45 to properly zero, but I need to find an accurate load first.