Really Silly, Basic Cleaning Question

[dhurt]

Hey Steve, I have found my Morini can get very packed with lead in the rifling. Very tight patches will bring out quite a lot of lead chunks, which has been surprising to me. I have found different ammo to produce quite different amounts of leading for me: Aguila shoots well for me but packs lots of lead, Sk produces less lead (but still visable flecks), and Tennex gives almost none! Pull a patch after shooting Aquila and you get a very rough and uneven pull. Pull a patch after Tennex and you get a very smooth, even pull. I think it is the lube. Tennex lube is like butter while Aguila is waxy. I don't know how this affects accuracy since I don't have a mechanical rest, but I tend to think less lead is better? Now, if only Tennex was affordable, it is the only stuff I would shoot!

Dave Wilson, who made my Pardini .32 barrel, uses patches, brushes, and an electronic stripper on his gun? He told me leading in the throat of his fast twist barrels will ruin 50 yard groups with the .32.

Later Steve, Dwaine

[Steve Swartz]

D-Wayne:

Aha! What you said clicked a lot of logic circuits . . . makes sense.

When I used to shoot TenX (lots of greasy lube):
- Chamber would gum up quickly (had to brush out chamber 2x during a match)
- Barrel would come clean quickly

So I switched to Federal Gold Medal Match (thin coat of "lacquer" lube):
- Chamber doesn't gum up at all
- Barrel seems to never come clean

So

- Wipe off excess lube and shoot Tenex?
- Shoot Federal but change cleaning procedures?

- Just train more and clean less?

[David Levene]

- Wipe off excess lube and shoot Tenex?
- Shoot Federal but change cleaning procedures?

Tut tut. Shoot the ammunition that gives the best results and alter your cleaning procedures to suit.

[rayjay]

Don't mess with the lube on the Eley ammo. Run a dry patch down the bore [ or at least in the chamber ] pretty often during the match, as in after every target or two.

[JamesH]

Care to elaborate? How is a barrel that is designed to have lumps of lead or copper-coated lead fored down it going to be overly affected by some fabric patches wiping their way down it?

Fabric can be quite abrasive, compared with lead or copper.
A barrel should be well oiled and wiped dry just prior to shooting, then the oil soaked into it looks after the metal.
Lead and lube will build up on the barrel and protect it, barrels used with copper projectiles have fairly short working lives.

A steel barrel will have no internal finish, blue or anything else.
If you let it dry out, or remove the oil using dry patches it will develop a surface corrosion layer which adheres very poorly to the metal.
This can be rubbed off with a dry patch, it corrodes again, next time you put a dry patch through it takes that off too - wearing the barrel rapidly.

Don't use dry patches! If you must make sure they are a loose fit.

[Matt]

I have been a gun owner and competitive shooter for a while. This ain't my first day at the rodeo folks.

However

I have been having a b*tch of a time cleaning my .22LR Free Pistol.

(obligatory aside for the whole "Why are You Cleaning Your .22 In The First Place? I agree in principle that a .22LR should *never* be cleaned- just pull the occasional wet patch/dry patch through after brushing the chamber. That's what i have been doing all along with my rimfire .22s)

For whatever reason (OCD + Bipolar + ADHD) I have decided to give my Free Pistol a "Thorough Cleaning."

Couple of wet patches- pull through with Otis brush 2-5 times- followed by couple of wet patches and a dry patch. Repeat. Every three cycles or so pull a few wet patches through and let it soak overnight.

I have been doing this for over a week. Have gone through 250+ patches and have changed the bore brush twice.

Am still getting very dirty patches immediately following the brushing.

At first I thought "Hey, the brush is dirty and I am just slopping dirty goo around in the barrel." So at about the tenth cycle I started cleaning the bore brush with brake cleaner every time.

Yeah, O.K., so here's my current thinking:

"Have the years of "properly" cleaning (ie don't) my .22LR gun resulted in so much built up crud in the barrel it is impossible to remove all the crud?"

and the related question

"Have I gone too far already?"

[I have become obsessed with trying to get my bore clean. Why? It's a sickness. Ever watch the show "Monk?"]


And yes I know full well that I am really wasting my time . . . this is not really a "practical" question . . .

This is an old scenario that keeps resurfacing from time to time and it is really easy to troubleshoot even for the experienced shooters. The constant black that is appearing on the patches are the oxides of the bronze brush. You can brush till you 'ain't' got no more arm to brush with and your patches will still come out black. Three passes with the brush is ample if you want to do that and then follow up with the patch routine until they come clean. Very simple and quick.

Matt

[Ken O]

I don't know whats really right to do either. Position/prone shooters seem to clean once or twice a season. Benchrest shooters clean between each string. I'm in the first catagory, I clean a couple times a season.

There are a lot of opinons on cleaning, who knows whats right. Whatever works for you.....

[JamesH]

The key is consistency.

If the bullet sees a clean barrel every time, great.

If the barrel achieves equilibrium and the bullet sees the same amount of dirt, lead etc each time - fine too.

Personally I clean every 500 rnds.

[Bruce Martindale]

Measure some of your ammo and see if a particular brand (that leads a lot) is undersized. I did.

Ask the big dogs what they do. I was at the Olympic Training Center and talked with Lones Wigger. He cleans frequently (like every time), and uses a brush.

I now clean every 90 rds to avoid the exponential build up I have experienced and you need good solvents.

I learned this the hard way when an old timer said he never cleaned his gun. What he didnt say was he had used it for 40 years and it was super lapped and polished. I literally plugged up an Anschutz 1813 so it wouldnt hold the NRA 50 ft 10 ring in prone. It was choke bored at the chamber. Getting that out was murder. Outers foul out is excellent tho.

Good patches like Butches triple twill, on a tight brass jag with some effort will reveal the lead; usually on the lands. Strokes get easier as the lead comes off. To those who say 22's dont lead well.....

I also talked with Bert Brookes from ELEY. It was a prickly subject for him so I could only get an answer to what he did at ELEY. Using a cold dirty bbl causes more damage that a hot dirty on as the debris (glass) is laying in the bottom of the bore. I use a pull thru before I start shooting if I havent cleaned.

Another part of the issue is ammo. ELEY has 2 lines of bullets, black and white. The latter are higher antimony and are harder hence may lead less.
But you pay for that and it also explains why some top level shooters can correctly say they dont clean their guns.

If you arent using white bullets, you, like me, need a different cleaning schedule.

best regards