Hi,
I am intrigued by the quality and precision of the FWB300 but would like to know how it would work for me at longer distances than the standard 10M.
If you have any insight to the remaining velocity and group size achievable at say 30,50,75,100 yds that would be very helpful (assume FWB 300S at 575 fps muzzle velocity).
Also is there an advantage to a higher velocity air rifle at these longer distances wrt precision (group size) or does the most precise rifle at 10M tend to produce the smallest group sizes at 75/100 yds?
If you know of any air rifles (springers) that may fair better at the longer distances that would help also?
I will mainly be using the rifle for back yard 50 - 75yd shooting (bench / offhand).
Thanks for your help - I know this is bit of an involved question.
Paul
Achievable group size vs distance with match air rifle?
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squiggly007
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long range air gun shooting.
You may want to ask your question on a Field Target forum, they are the people that seem to know the most about long distance shooting with air rifles. Good luck.
Denis
http://www.airgunforum.ca/forum/index.php
http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/
Denis
http://www.airgunforum.ca/forum/index.php
http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/
Shooting FT, and knowing some guns do and some don't use the same barrels as 10m, your mileage may vary.
At long ranges, your going to need a scope that can cope with the drop of a 6ft/lb gun. And you'll probably want to set it up so you don't run out of elevation, so that means adjustable mounts or shimming. We do this as a matter of course in FT to keep the scope optically centred to get the best out of the optics.
Pellet choice and match becomes an issue as well. It becomes about trying to get the best consistency out of the pellets, assuming the gun is consistent in the first place.
But that said, good groups at 55yds from a stable shooting position with a 12ft/lb can get close to the little fingernail in terms of size. Ie, they know it can be done, so strive to achieve it.
I've seen anschutz 2002 converted for FT shoot fingernail groups off the knee, and that's normally around what FT shooters aim to achieve as a benchmark.
At 100, I have no idea... and i'm not even sure what the 300 would group like at 50... all i can say is have a go. Try different pellets, see what goes. Run it through a chrono and see if the gun is consistent in the first place.
There's a long range shooting section at airgunbbs.com
With 6ft/lb your probably going to have quite some drop ( I dial 5 MOA at 55yds with 12ft/lb) from your zenith, and it's actually about the same drop at 10m... but with 6 your going to have a lot more at the far end, and fun with windage.
But then fun with windage is what FT is all about :D
At long ranges, your going to need a scope that can cope with the drop of a 6ft/lb gun. And you'll probably want to set it up so you don't run out of elevation, so that means adjustable mounts or shimming. We do this as a matter of course in FT to keep the scope optically centred to get the best out of the optics.
Pellet choice and match becomes an issue as well. It becomes about trying to get the best consistency out of the pellets, assuming the gun is consistent in the first place.
But that said, good groups at 55yds from a stable shooting position with a 12ft/lb can get close to the little fingernail in terms of size. Ie, they know it can be done, so strive to achieve it.
I've seen anschutz 2002 converted for FT shoot fingernail groups off the knee, and that's normally around what FT shooters aim to achieve as a benchmark.
At 100, I have no idea... and i'm not even sure what the 300 would group like at 50... all i can say is have a go. Try different pellets, see what goes. Run it through a chrono and see if the gun is consistent in the first place.
There's a long range shooting section at airgunbbs.com
With 6ft/lb your probably going to have quite some drop ( I dial 5 MOA at 55yds with 12ft/lb) from your zenith, and it's actually about the same drop at 10m... but with 6 your going to have a lot more at the far end, and fun with windage.
But then fun with windage is what FT is all about :D
Last edited by robf on Wed Aug 06, 2008 11:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
robf wrote:Shooting FT, and knowing some guns do and some don't use the same barrels as 10m, your mileage may vary.
At long ranges, your going to need a scope that can cope with the drop of a 6ft/lb gun. And you'll probably want to set it up so you don't run out of elevation, so that means adjustable mounts or shimming. We do this as a matter of course in FT to keep the scope optically centred to get the best out of the optics.
Pellet choice and match becomes an issue as well. It becomes about trying to get the best consistency out of the pellets, assuming the gun is consistent in the first place.
But that said, good groups at 55yds from a stable shooting position with a 12ft/lb can get close to the little fingernail in terms of size.
I've seen anschutz 2002 converted for FT shoot fingernail groups off the knee, and that's normally around what FT shooters aim to achieve as a good benchmark. Ie, they know it can be done, so strive to achieve it.
At 100, I have no idea... and i'm not even sure what the 300 would group like at 50... all i can say is have a go. Try different pellets, see what goes. Run it through a chrono and see if the gun is consistent in the first place.
There's a long range shooting section at airgunbbs.com
With 6ft/lb your probably going to have quite some drop ( I dial 5 MOA at 55yds with 12ft/lb) from your zenith, and it's actually about the same drop at 10m... but with 6 your going to have a lot more at the far end, and fun with windage.
But then fun with windage is what FT is all about :D
the FWB 300 is a great air rifle but it was designed for 10 meter shooting, so you need to keep this in mind. I shoot a ton of informal air rifle and over the years have learned a thing or two. First of all most informal air rifle shooting is done out to about 30 yards max. Then you have the field target guys who shoot amazing out to 55 yards max but with really tricked out guns.
now about the FWB 300 my coach had me shooting one for a long time before I got my P700 and I couldn't resist the temptation to throw a scope on it and see what it could really do. Out to about 30 yards it shot an amazing ragged hole but after that I thought it was pointless. I like for whatever I'm shooting to put everything in the same hole.
570 fps is nothing compared to today's air rifle standards. If its not going over 1,000 fps most folks don't want to mess with it. The problem with shooting the FWB 300 long range out to 50 yards is the power just isn't there. I have shot air rifles averaging around 800 fps at 50 yards and just watched the pellets tumble in flight and your not gona get any accuracy like that. For 50 yard shooting I highly suggest having something that shoots a little faster because the pellets your shooting lose energy quickly and become unstable in flight otherwise.
The recoiless feature on the FWB 300 is wonderful but for some reason the manufactures' today don't make recoiless air rifles. There is one exception and that is the RWS-54. This air rifle is a spring gun just so you know. The recoiless system in it is not the same as the FWB 300 but it works. People tend to either love this gun or hate it. I personally love it. Its plenty powerful enough for shooting 3/4 inch groups out to 50 yards. The trigger on it though is terrible by my standards, however, you can modify it by adding a second adjustment screw and its really nice then.
About scopes running out of adjustment and so forth it does happen but can be easily avoided. First of all you would want to buy a drooper mount from BKL, because european manufactures' build droop into their guns which is a long story. In the end you'll probably need to shim the rear ring of your scope with a piece of film negative but its no big deal and works fine.
Now if you don't mind buying all the gear to shoot PCP I would highly suggest buying one because they'll shoot out to 50 yards no problem if you buy something like an air arms.
If you really love the FWB 300 I have heard of people modifying them to shoot long range field target. I don't know all the details of how but I'm pretty sure that Maccori Custom Airgun Shop makes a upgrade spring kit for them that you could install yourself.
One last thing you can shoot out to 75 and 100 yards but don't have high expectations. I've done it and if your hitting a soda can your doing extremely good.
I hope this helps some,
Brian
Oh yeah, you need to go to the straightshooters website to see the RWS-54, I got mine from them and they are good folks to deal with.
now about the FWB 300 my coach had me shooting one for a long time before I got my P700 and I couldn't resist the temptation to throw a scope on it and see what it could really do. Out to about 30 yards it shot an amazing ragged hole but after that I thought it was pointless. I like for whatever I'm shooting to put everything in the same hole.
570 fps is nothing compared to today's air rifle standards. If its not going over 1,000 fps most folks don't want to mess with it. The problem with shooting the FWB 300 long range out to 50 yards is the power just isn't there. I have shot air rifles averaging around 800 fps at 50 yards and just watched the pellets tumble in flight and your not gona get any accuracy like that. For 50 yard shooting I highly suggest having something that shoots a little faster because the pellets your shooting lose energy quickly and become unstable in flight otherwise.
The recoiless feature on the FWB 300 is wonderful but for some reason the manufactures' today don't make recoiless air rifles. There is one exception and that is the RWS-54. This air rifle is a spring gun just so you know. The recoiless system in it is not the same as the FWB 300 but it works. People tend to either love this gun or hate it. I personally love it. Its plenty powerful enough for shooting 3/4 inch groups out to 50 yards. The trigger on it though is terrible by my standards, however, you can modify it by adding a second adjustment screw and its really nice then.
About scopes running out of adjustment and so forth it does happen but can be easily avoided. First of all you would want to buy a drooper mount from BKL, because european manufactures' build droop into their guns which is a long story. In the end you'll probably need to shim the rear ring of your scope with a piece of film negative but its no big deal and works fine.
Now if you don't mind buying all the gear to shoot PCP I would highly suggest buying one because they'll shoot out to 50 yards no problem if you buy something like an air arms.
If you really love the FWB 300 I have heard of people modifying them to shoot long range field target. I don't know all the details of how but I'm pretty sure that Maccori Custom Airgun Shop makes a upgrade spring kit for them that you could install yourself.
One last thing you can shoot out to 75 and 100 yards but don't have high expectations. I've done it and if your hitting a soda can your doing extremely good.
I hope this helps some,
Brian
Oh yeah, you need to go to the straightshooters website to see the RWS-54, I got mine from them and they are good folks to deal with.
As well informed as the above is, it is probably skewed by the majority US look on FT, which is power is (seemingly) everything.
In the UK we're legally bound to 12 ft/lb, which means 795 fps with an 8.4 gn pellet, and we cope with the windage, as that's what the sport is about. It's a commonly held belief that although smaller targets are harder to hit, faster shooting guns take away the skill factor to some degree at 55 yds.
Up for debate? Well you decide, soon we'll have the first World Championships FT which will be shot to 12ft/lb, and the US team will be looking to hold their title, which was shot with higher power guns.
The 'tricked' aspect comes into the same degree as 10m guns... people customise them to their requirements. However, it's entirely possible to pick an off the shelf scope and gun and compete at the top level in FT, although the higher power 12+ guns will have the advantage in the wind, and it might be that some guns/pellets struggle beyond 12. But that's not the game (anymore).
In the UK we're legally bound to 12 ft/lb, which means 795 fps with an 8.4 gn pellet, and we cope with the windage, as that's what the sport is about. It's a commonly held belief that although smaller targets are harder to hit, faster shooting guns take away the skill factor to some degree at 55 yds.
Up for debate? Well you decide, soon we'll have the first World Championships FT which will be shot to 12ft/lb, and the US team will be looking to hold their title, which was shot with higher power guns.
The 'tricked' aspect comes into the same degree as 10m guns... people customise them to their requirements. However, it's entirely possible to pick an off the shelf scope and gun and compete at the top level in FT, although the higher power 12+ guns will have the advantage in the wind, and it might be that some guns/pellets struggle beyond 12. But that's not the game (anymore).