US Source for Varta V74PX 15V Batteries for Morini CM54E FP?

Gwhite · Post by **Gwhite** » Mon May 26, 2008 1:14 pm

I haven't had time to shoot much free pistol lately, and finally got out my Morini today. It's one of the older ones that uses an odd 15V battery. The battery that was in it was dead, but I had a "new" one still in it's wrapper. I got to the range to practice, and got 1 shot out of it. It was about 5 years old, so I guess that's the shelf life on these.

The place I bought them seems to have disappeared. I know I can use the carbon zinc 504 batteries, and I plan on ordering a couple today.

Does anyone know of a US source for the Varta's? Maybe ISS or Champion's Choice?

Thanks!

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon May 26, 2008 1:23 pm

Radio Shack has them. If they don't have them on the shelf, they will order it for you. The shipment will come to your doorstep. I get mine from them all they time.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon May 26, 2008 1:24 pm

It is all over google and ebay

Gwhite · Post by **Gwhite** » Mon May 26, 2008 5:13 pm

The 504's can be had easily. It's the V74PX's that are hard to find. The old carbon zinc 504's didn't last nearly as long as the alkaline, and tended to poop out quicker when it was cold.

Yes, Google comes up with lots of hits for the V74PX. They are 99% from overseas. I did discover a couple of options:

Our host, Pilkguns, carries them. They are $16. No indication of how fresh they are.

Neal Stepp at ISS has a few. One is good until 2009, and is $16. One is dated 2007, and that is $8.

Interestingly enough, Newark Electronics lists them for $6.60, shipped from England.

The BIG news is that when I tried to compare the power capacity of the 504's to the V74PX, I got a surprise. They no longer make the 504's out of carbon zinc! They are alkaline just line the Varta's.

For a comparison, the power rating of the V74PX is 45 mAH. The 504 is now good for 60 mAH: http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/504.pdf

So, this looks like a false alarm. The 504's can be bought almost anywhere, and apparently work even better than the Varta's! The price at Radio Shack is $8, and the web site claims they are available at most stores.

Steve Swartz · Post by **Steve Swartz** » Mon May 26, 2008 5:48 pm

Caveat on the Radio Shack replacement batteries- some of them get "squared off" (rectangular solid instead of cylindrical solid) somehow during shipment. These do not fit exaclty right in either the 84E or older 162s.

Two out the four Rdio Shack batteries I ordered were like this- they wouldn't fit in the gun.

They did fit rather nicely in the trash can though . . .

(p.s. this was a couple of years ago; I have been buying Vartas since then)

Fred · Post by **Fred** » Mon May 26, 2008 9:00 pm

Gwhite wrote: The BIG news is that when I tried to compare the power capacity of the 504's to the V74PX, I got a surprise. They no longer make the 504's out of carbon zinc! They are alkaline just line the Varta's.

For a comparison, the power rating of the V74PX is 45 mAH. The 504 is now good for 60 mAH: http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/504.pdf

Well, I'm certainly confused by this data sheet. For one, the chemical system is listed as "zinc-manganese dioxide" which is unfamiliar to me. The discharge curve looks more carbon-zinc like than alkaline. Even stranger is that the photo shows a cylindrical battery, but the schematic drawing shows a square cross-section. And the 60 mAh rating includes service down to .8V per cell (8V for the whole battery), which is way below the level need for the 84e.

Also, another poster mentioned Radio Shack as a source for Varta and/or alkaline equivalents. Radio Shack did sell a nice alkaline equivalent 5 or so years ago, but I believe they have long since discontinued it. Does Radio Shack now sell anything but the 504?

FredB

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue May 27, 2008 2:31 am

Peel the metal casing off a Varta V74PX and inside you'll find that it is simply a plastic tube containing a stack of ten x 1.5 volt alkaline button cells in series.

Gwhite · Post by **Gwhite** » Wed May 28, 2008 7:48 pm

If you read the Eveready datasheet on the 504, they even tell you which cells they use. At $16 a pop, it might be cheaper to buy the button cells than buying a Varta, but the price of the 504's is low enough that it's probably not worth trying.

I have two of each brand en route. I will let folks know if there are any issues with getting the 504 into the cavity in the grip.

shadow · Post by **shadow** » Wed May 28, 2008 9:07 pm

Well, I just checked my spare battery and it is an Everyready "semi square, semi round". I'll order one from our host tomorrow.

Thanks!

Susan

Gwhite · Post by **Gwhite** » Thu May 29, 2008 7:53 pm

Fred wrote: Well, I'm certainly confused by this data sheet. For one, the chemical system is listed as "zinc-manganese dioxide" which is unfamiliar to me. The discharge curve looks more carbon-zinc like than alkaline. Even stranger is that the photo shows a cylindrical battery, but the schematic drawing shows a square cross-section. And the 60 mAh rating includes service down to .8V per cell (8V for the whole battery), which is way below the level need for the 84e.

FredB

I screwed up when I looked at the 504 data sheet. Because it made no mention of carbon & had a higher capacity than the Varta, I assumed it must be alkaline. I think it actually uses a newer carbon zinc chemistry, which is better than the old LeClanche carbon zinc designs. It's definitely rated for better capacity than the Varta, which is odd. Even when you try to account for the different way the loads are specified, the 504 looks to be better.

I got two 504's today, and installed one in the pistol. It clicks very authoritatively now. The squarish shape was a bit of a tight fit, so I shaved down the foam on the cover slightly.

The weird part is that I checked the Varta I removed, and it gives every appearance of being fine. It tested at 15V with the 110K Ohm load they specify on their data sheet, and put out 14.9V when I loaded it with 30K Ohms, which is what Eveready uses for their specs. I certainly don't trust this Varta anymore, but at some point I may put it in the pistol & see what it does under that load. I suspect the pistol puts a much heavier load on it than either datasheet calls out. If I can find out what the load is, I could make a tester to check stored cells before I put them in the pistol.

The 504's came with an 0807 date code. I'm assuming that is the manufacturing date, and not the expiration date you usually see on consumer batteries. I have a query in to Eveready to verify this, along with what they expect the shelf life to be. Four years seems to be a common number for this sort of battery. The technical literature indicates that storing them in the refrigerator (NOT the freezer) can help a lot.

Fred · Post by **Fred** » Thu May 29, 2008 10:52 pm

Gwhite wrote: The weird part is that I checked the Varta I removed, and it gives every appearance of being fine. It tested at 15V with the 110K Ohm load they specify on their data sheet, and put out 14.9V when I loaded it with 30K Ohms, which is what Eveready uses for their specs. I certainly don't trust this Varta anymore, but at some point I may put it in the pistol & see what it does under that load. I suspect the pistol puts a much heavier load on it than either datasheet calls out. If I can find out what the load is, I could make a tester to check stored cells before I put them in the pistol.

I seem to remember that Francesco posted instructions for a quick and dirty test for these batteries. You might find that post in the archives. IIRC he said something about holding down the test button while triggering several times quickly. If the test LED remains bright, your battery is good to go. However, it might be better to check the archives because my memory LED may not be all that bright.

HTH,
FredB

P.S. I still suspect, based on the voltage discharge curve, that the 504 is going to be a disappointment. Please let us know your experience.

TomAmlie · Post by **TomAmlie** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 4:04 pm

Fred wrote:P.S. I still suspect, based on the voltage discharge curve, that the 504 is going to be a disappointment. Please let us know your experience.

In my case it was. The battery in my CM84 is the original, a bit more than a year old and a fair amount of use. I thought it about time to get a replacement for when the inevitable happens.

Picked up a (squarish) 504 at "Batteries Plus", $5.99 + tax. Installed without difficulty. After the first click I had to wait a good 10 seconds before it would discharge again. I don't know if it's a matter of a battery having sat on a shelf for 5 years, or a fundamental design inadequacy.

Any other experiences?

shadow · Post by **shadow** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 9:38 pm

I bought my Morini used. It came with the squarish Eveready si I should not have a problem installing another one.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Jun 07, 2008 12:14 pm

There's a company selling an Exell A220 on eBay. I just received one and it works fine.

Gwhite · Post by **Gwhite** » Sat Jun 07, 2008 3:46 pm

The Excell is an alkaline, and should work OK. This place has them as well, and actually lists them as working in the Morinis: http://www.batteriesinaflash.com/index. ... ts_id=2200

I'm not sure where Excells are made (China?), and I have no idea how the quality is. A lot also depends on how fresh you can get them. The new Varta's I got from Pilkington are marked Mar-2010, so I've got a couple years to go. The Eveready 504s are marked with the manufacturing date (0807), and Eveready says they have a 3 year shelf life. So, give or take 5 months, the two flavors I just bought should poop out about the same time.

In the meantime, I just got back from a 70 shot practice session with an Eveready 504. It worked fine, but it was about 90F out, which generally makes batteries pretty happy.

I finally got an answer out of Eveready,and they said that the 504 is a classic LeClanche carbon zinc design. I have no idea what games they are playing with their specs to get 30% more mA hours out of the 504 than Varta claims for their alkalines. Battery capacity is very test dependent, but I've never seen a discrepancy like this.

My plan is to borrow a good digital oscilloscope from work and see if I can actually measure and compare the voltage sag when a 504 and a Varta have to recharge a Morini. Maybe I'll buy a couple of Excells for comparison as well.

Fred Mannis · Post by **Fred Mannis** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 11:42 am

Gwhite wrote:The Excell is an alkaline, and should work OK. This place has them as well, and actually lists them as working in the Morinis: http://www.batteriesinaflash.com/index. ... ts_id=2200

How did the Excell work out? Just visited this website and the price certainly looks good vs the Varta. My CM84 is ready for a new battery!

Tom Amlie · Post by **Tom Amlie** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 12:57 pm

Fred -

I got an Exell on eBay. I put it in just to verify that it worked, and then took it out until needed. It worked fine; quick recovery.

If you search on-line, the proper spelling is "Exell".

Tom A.

Gwhite · Post by **Gwhite** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 7:41 pm

I've done some testing, and have been meaning to post the results when I had time to write them up in detail. I hooked up a digital oscilloscope to my pistol, and recorded the voltage waveform while dry-firing with a fresh Varta, both a fresh and a slightly used Eveready 504 (from Radio Shack), and a fresh Exell. The 'scope shows the voltage drop during the post-firing charging process, which is related to the internal resistance.

The Exell worked significantly better than the Varta or the Eveready. My only concern with Exell's is that they don't have any date code on them, so it's hard to tell how fresh they really are. I'd like to get more info on the Exell's, but Google says their web site is a virus source, so I haven't been able to find out things like their test criteria for their mA-Hr rating. The Exell is rated for more than twice the Varta, but a lot of that could be specsmanship.

The image below shows the voltage curves for the three new batteries. The voltage drop of the Exell is less than half that of the other batteries, and the recovery (charge time) is also much shorter. The starting voltage of the Eveready (RS 504) is a good bit higher, but it's a carbon zinc chemistry, and that will drop quickly once it's seen some use. Comparing an Eveready with 270 shots on it showed about the same initial voltage as the fresh alkaline batteries from Varta & Exell.

jacques b gros · Post by **jacques b gros** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 8:12 pm

Data venia from the tech people, I've seen a pistol (morini air) shooting with a 12v battery from these remote garage openers.

It is a lot shorter, so the guy put in with it a spring long enough to fill the space and make the contact.

Last a lot less, but it's cheap AND available in any supermarket in town, while the originals have to be imported. Import duties 'round here can reach 105% over CIF

TargetTalk

US Source for Varta V74PX 15V Batteries for Morini CM54E FP?

US Source for Varta V74PX 15V Batteries for Morini CM54E FP?

Re: US Source for Varta V74PX 15V Batteries for Morini CM54E

Batterry

Morini

Try eBay

Exell A220