Hi all,
I've been recently experimenting with my supporting hand position and I have a question... I've noticed that most rifle shooters tend to rest their rifles on top of the closed left-hand fist, however while doing some dry-firing routine I've experimented holding the rifle with the open palm of the hand (thumb to the left of the stock, remaining fingers to the right open without touching the stock). Results have been encouraging, with the rifle staying "quieter" on target for longer periods. I guess that this happens because by locking the wrist in a supine position one eliminates a potential source of vibrations, however I would like to know and hear if there are any pros and cons of holding the rifle on the palm or or the closed fist, or is it a personal choice?
Also I'm looking for a shooting glove, preferably fingerless that would take both positions, any recommendation would be very welcome.
Cheers Nicholas
Palm up, fist up?
Moderators: pilkguns, Marcus, m1963, David Levene, Spencer
-
Nick_Burman
- Posts: 81
- Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 5:52 am
- Location: Sao Paulo, Brazil
Nick
Support hand position is a very individual thing and you will have to try out several different hand positions before you decide. Comfort is high on the agenda as is gun elevation.
The 'fist' configuration ie resting on your knuckles is often used to give more elevation to the rifle. Resting on your palm will make the rifle sit lower, but then it all depends an your body dimensions.
Quite honestly, there is no 'best' hand position. The only one to avoid is using your finger tips. Wrist fatigue/pain can occurr with the palm position, but not in every case.
What may seem a good position as a try out may not be so good after an hour of shooting. If you have access to a coach, get his/her advice but also try out what works best for you over a full 60 shot match.
As for fingerless gloves, nearly all the major manufacturers offer these but again you need to try a few on and make your own mind up.
Support hand position is a very individual thing and you will have to try out several different hand positions before you decide. Comfort is high on the agenda as is gun elevation.
The 'fist' configuration ie resting on your knuckles is often used to give more elevation to the rifle. Resting on your palm will make the rifle sit lower, but then it all depends an your body dimensions.
Quite honestly, there is no 'best' hand position. The only one to avoid is using your finger tips. Wrist fatigue/pain can occurr with the palm position, but not in every case.
What may seem a good position as a try out may not be so good after an hour of shooting. If you have access to a coach, get his/her advice but also try out what works best for you over a full 60 shot match.
As for fingerless gloves, nearly all the major manufacturers offer these but again you need to try a few on and make your own mind up.
I have used both and have settled on sitting my rifle on my palm. When using the fist I notice instability in my wrist. As far as gloves go I find that what is good for one position is not as good for the other. Sitting it on my palm I want a glove with minimal wrist stiffness. In fact I have seen some shooters who shoot this way use no glove. It is pretty comfortable with no glove. For sitting the gun on my fist I want a glove with a support in the wrist area.
-
Telecomtodd
- Posts: 221
- Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:15 pm
- Location: Saint Charles, MO
http://www.brenzovich.com/ktgloves.htm
It truly is all about comfort. When I firs began shooting, I shot like my teammates did, with my gun sitting on my knuckles, but after awhile I began to experiment with other positions and liked the open palm way best. My scores have also begun to improve.
The link at the top is where I found my glove. It's a little pricey (you have to actually call brenzovich and they'll give you a quote) but well worth it. It works well in either position and gives plenty of support.
It truly is all about comfort. When I firs began shooting, I shot like my teammates did, with my gun sitting on my knuckles, but after awhile I began to experiment with other positions and liked the open palm way best. My scores have also begun to improve.
The link at the top is where I found my glove. It's a little pricey (you have to actually call brenzovich and they'll give you a quote) but well worth it. It works well in either position and gives plenty of support.
There are varying benefits to most of the positions out there, and each have their pros and cons.
The big benefit of the closed fist is that you are utilizing more of your bone structure to support the rifle. However, if you use a lot of cant in your position, it may actually be difficult to balance the rifle in this way (which is why you will sometimes see people use a split finger version of the fist).
By going across the palm, you can use slight fingertip pressure to help control the rifle's movements. On the downside, it tends to rely more on your muscles and tendons than bone support, and may strain the hands and arms during a longer match.
Because I have low hip bones, my arms sit pretty low when I shoot standing, so I use a pretty considerable height adjustment with my palm rest. I use an open palm variant, because I feel that it gives me better control with my supporting hand so far away from the stock. Without being able to use a palm rest for air rifle, I adopted the fist for air some years ago, and haven't had a problem with that either.
Try whichever methods you like. Whichever you are most comfortable with and produces the best results, use it. There is no right or wrong way.
I'll second the Thune gloves. I had used everything over the years, but the short finger Thune with the top grip rubber on both sides is by far the best I've ever used for positions. They make a model now with the top grip on the palm and the harder material on the backside which makes for an excellent glove if you have any pain from the sling/handstop in the prone or kneeling positions.
The big benefit of the closed fist is that you are utilizing more of your bone structure to support the rifle. However, if you use a lot of cant in your position, it may actually be difficult to balance the rifle in this way (which is why you will sometimes see people use a split finger version of the fist).
By going across the palm, you can use slight fingertip pressure to help control the rifle's movements. On the downside, it tends to rely more on your muscles and tendons than bone support, and may strain the hands and arms during a longer match.
Because I have low hip bones, my arms sit pretty low when I shoot standing, so I use a pretty considerable height adjustment with my palm rest. I use an open palm variant, because I feel that it gives me better control with my supporting hand so far away from the stock. Without being able to use a palm rest for air rifle, I adopted the fist for air some years ago, and haven't had a problem with that either.
Try whichever methods you like. Whichever you are most comfortable with and produces the best results, use it. There is no right or wrong way.
I'll second the Thune gloves. I had used everything over the years, but the short finger Thune with the top grip rubber on both sides is by far the best I've ever used for positions. They make a model now with the top grip on the palm and the harder material on the backside which makes for an excellent glove if you have any pain from the sling/handstop in the prone or kneeling positions.
A few decades back in 1980 one of the top German shooters of that time Bernd Klingner found that all support hand positions [in the standing position] where the open or closed hand [fist] faced the shooter caused the muscles/tendons in the fore arm and biceps to become slightly tensioned.
Bernd found that this muscle tensioning although only slight could introduce some 'flinch' on shot release.
In his book 'Rifle Shooting As a Sport' Bernd suggests that by swivelling the support hand away from your face so the palm was now side ways and not facing you reduced this muscle tension. When i spoke to Bernd in the late 80's he said try it out and you will notice that some positions tension the muscles and others relax them.
Bernd found that this muscle tensioning although only slight could introduce some 'flinch' on shot release.
In his book 'Rifle Shooting As a Sport' Bernd suggests that by swivelling the support hand away from your face so the palm was now side ways and not facing you reduced this muscle tension. When i spoke to Bernd in the late 80's he said try it out and you will notice that some positions tension the muscles and others relax them.
-
Nick_Burman
- Posts: 81
- Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 5:52 am
- Location: Sao Paulo, Brazil
Thanks Peep. I forgot about the Klingner book... ages ago the Brazilian Sports Ministry had it translated into Portuguese (good times when governments actually sponsored shooting sports!!!) and I purchased a copy last year when I started shooting. I do remember him telling about the "palm away" position - I'll give it a try on next training session.
Cheers NB
Cheers NB
-
2650 Plus
Support hand position
Body confriguration causes the most problems in developing the standing position. A short forearm usually requires the shooter to go to the fist while a longer one permits use of the palm. What happens if you are half way between these two extremes. Often the solution lies in the use of a sight riser block if you prefer the palm support. Its usually posible to move the support hand further out along the stock if the rifle is too high in the shoulder. This is so basic that most of you will already have progressed beyond the point I am making, and I hope I'm not boring you. Good Shooting Bill Horton