Impact of trajectory when shooting at shorter range

[bigred]

I dont have a clear 10m space at home to train, so shoot at reduced distance of 5m when I can't get to the range. I'm wondering how this reduced distance effects the point of impact. I found a link on a thread to a software app to show this, but the site is blocked here in work (classified as Weapons!!). I'd imagine the trajectory would only vary by about a few cm over the 10m. Roughly, at 5m, how much higher would the pellet hit? I'd like to know how much of the vertical displacement is my fault!
I'm shooting an IZH right now (with RWS R10 rifle pellets), but have my sights set on a P44 in the next few months
PS - I've searched the treads and can't find a definitive answer
Thanks
James

[jrmcdaniel]

At close distances (less than about 20yds), sight height is the important variable in the ballistics. The pellet is actually "climbing" (with respect to the point of aim -- it starts dropping the instant it leave the barrel in actuality). Thus, you should have to move the sights "up" for shooting closer distances. (If the distance were 0yds, then the sight would have to be "up" the distance from the sight to the barrel. Also, "up" is the usual marking on sights and you are moving POI, not point-of-aim -- best not to think too much about this or you will make a mistake one day.)

For a fixed distance, just move the sights until you are zeroed again (and note your 10M setting so you can return to it easily -- you may want to rest your sight zero, if possible, for the 10M setting).

Best,

Joe

[RobStubbs]

As Joe says, just move the sights as required and note the number of clicks down, it's irrelevant where theory says they should be, it's where the shots fall that matters.

Rob.

[bigred]

Thanks guys!

[Jim Morrison]

If you don't have 33 feet and have close to 25 feet, try the B-1 or the TQ-9.

Attached is a gif of the B-1. It's a good one to start with. I have a copy of the TQ-9 after a while


Jim

[Jim Morrison]

Here is a 25 foot ISU Pistol target.

If you want to find out the sight adjustment at close range, these two 25 foot targets may help.

Place the target, in the center of your pellet trap. Shoot 3 shot groups to get on the target.

After you get on the paper (target), again shoot 3 shot groups until all 3 shots touch or come close to touching.

Then adjust your sights one way or the other to move your group to the center.

[David Levene]

I dont have a clear 10m space at home to train, so shoot at reduced distance of 5m when I can't get to the range.

Are you shooting at a correctly scaled target, one that not only gives the correct sight picture but also the correct scoring rings for the reduced distance. These are not the same thing.

If you do not have the correct target then I am sure a quick email to this site's webmaster, denis@izh46.com , will quickly bring an electronic copy of his excellant target which has the correct ring and black dimensions. (I thought it was in the archives but cannot find it)

[Jim Morrison]

David:

When you say the correct target, what target number are you talking about?

Jim

[David Levene]

David:

When you say the correct target, what target number are you talking about?

I am talking about the ISSF 10m Air Pistol target, and the correctly reduced black and ring diameters for proportional shooting at 5m.

[bigred]

David:

When you say the correct target, what target number are you talking about?

I am talking about the ISSF 10m Air Pistol target, and the correctly reduced black and ring diameters for proportional shooting at 5m.

I'm actually using the 5m scaled-down targets available here as well as some I got elsewhere. I print them onto the back of a regular 10m AP target. My question was really to do with the difference in the point of impact. In reality, the variation is probably less than my ability to hold anyway (I'm only shooting AP since October - 531 is my best score).

[PaulT]

I must have posted this before.

Download SCATT software from www.scatt.com and print scaled target to meet your needs. All free of charge, except the paper you print out on that is! Yo could always recycle unused pats of larget pistol targets :-)

Paul

[David Levene]

I'm actually using the 5m scaled-down targets available here as well as some I got elsewhere. I print them onto the back of a regular 10m AP target.

Just for the sake of clarity then, the reduced targets you are using have the black aiming mark extending out into the 6-ring?

Don't under-rate yourself. If you've shot a 531 once then you are more than capable of doing it, or probably much better, again. You should therefore allow yourself to train in the most realistic way possible.

As has been said by others, don't worry about any change in the point of impact. Just move the sights.

[David Levene]

PaulT, so far as I remember the Scatt software just reduces everything, ring sizes and aiming mark size, by the same percentage. That is fine for dry firing but inaccurate for live fire.

[David M]

Why bother with a reduced proper scaled target, if you are shooting a reduced distance you should only be training, the score should not matter. The call of shot and the group size is what matters.
Take a standard air pistol target and a sharp knife, cut out the black at the 8 ring (leaving the black 7 ring). Place this target backwards over another air target (this reduces the size of the black for sighting) and shoot.
If you need to score to give yourself a baseline, use the x ring as a 10, the 10 ring as a 9 etc. This will give a score relative to your performance, but really just work on shot call and group.

[PaulT]

Exactly, this is training! The aiming mark is the correct size fo the sight picture. The "score" is not relevant!
Enjoy your shooting.

[David Levene]

DavidM and PaulT, I understand what you are both saying. The way I see it though, if shooting at 5m is your only option, then your target alternatives are:-

1) Use a target printed for a different event which is unlikely to give a correct sight picture or scoring rings.
2) Cut up existing targets to make one giving an approximate sight picture but no accurately proportioned scoring rings.
3) Print special targets, using free software, that give a correct sight picture but no accurately proportioned scoring rings.
4) Print readily available targets that give a correct sight picture and accurately proportioned scoring rings.

I suppose it really boils down to how realistic you want your limited training facilities to be. I see options 2, 3 & 4 as all being as easy/difficult as each other to impliment.

"You pays your money and takes your choice."

[David Levene]

I just found the link to Shin's correctly proportioned 5m Air Pistol target.

[bigred]

Exactly, this is training! The aiming mark is the correct size fo the sight picture. The "score" is not relevant!
Enjoy your shooting.

That's something I didnt mention. I dont score these cards - it's group consistency that's more important to me. I only score cards when on the club range (It's an hour drive away). The pellet holes are so big on a 5m target you''d just get an over-estimation of your ability. Shin's target is what I use - to me at least, the black seems to be in the correct proportion.

[David Levene]

The pellet holes are so big on a 5m target you''d just get an over-estimation of your ability. Shin's target is what I use - to me at least, the black seems to be in the correct proportion.

That's the whole point of Shin's target, because the black and scoring ring diameters have been reduced by different percentages you get the correct sight picture and the correct score.

The next problem is that the reduced shooting distance changes the relative effect of the different types of error.

Anyway, if you're not scoring the targets then the scoring rings are obviously irelevant.

[Guest]

I must have posted this before.

Download SCATT software from www.scatt.com and print scaled target to meet your needs. All free of charge, except the paper you print out on that is! Yo could always recycle unused pats of larget pistol targets :-)

Paul

FWIW 50m rifle single bull fanfold-type targets cut in four are almost exactly the right size for a 10m card. If your 50m shooters are any good you'll only have to put up with one corner of your home-made targets being chewed away a little.