What pistol should I buy? I'm thinking either a ruger MKII, a browning buckmark, or a hammerli trailside. I have also seen a few berreta neos but I can't really find much info on it. What gun should I start out with? I already shoot AP and I like open sights, but is the red dot a better way to go?, if so which brand? I want to spend less than $400. I also don't want to have to immediately get a trigger job, reliability stuff, etc.
Thanks,
HB
St. Louis, Missouri
I'm going to get into bullseye so....
Moderators: pilkguns, m1963, Isabel1130
If you can, find the local bullseye league and pay them a visit. At the place I shoot I'd estimate that about half of the time spent there by most of the shooters is spent chatting. Introduce yourself and see what they suggest for a first pistol...maybe somebody has a used one that you can pick up at a reasonable price. It's nice to shoot whatever the fashionalbe pistol is because whatever problems you run into, there will be other people who have had the same problem.
If you already have shot competitively, and if you are very nice and polite, maybe somebody there would let you shoot their backup gun for a string. People can be touchy about who they let shoot their guns, but personally I'd love to help somebody get set up in the sport.
That being said, I'd say that used is better than new (more gun for the money), iron sights are better than red-dot (spend the money on the pistol, you can get a red-dot later), adjustible sights are a must, and the best gun for you is the one you can afford. If money is the limiting issue, remember that used guns are pretty much free if you take care of them. You can almost always sell them for around as much as you paid for them, which is a big plus when you're buying a "first gun." If it stinks you can sell it after the season is over and then get the pistol you really want.
I'd avoid the Beretta, but that's just because I don't like plastic...it would probably put all 10 shots in the X ring from a vise. The Ruger is the only gun from your list that I've seen people shoot here. Most of them have equipment WAY out of your (or my) price range.
Good luck!
-J.
If you already have shot competitively, and if you are very nice and polite, maybe somebody there would let you shoot their backup gun for a string. People can be touchy about who they let shoot their guns, but personally I'd love to help somebody get set up in the sport.
That being said, I'd say that used is better than new (more gun for the money), iron sights are better than red-dot (spend the money on the pistol, you can get a red-dot later), adjustible sights are a must, and the best gun for you is the one you can afford. If money is the limiting issue, remember that used guns are pretty much free if you take care of them. You can almost always sell them for around as much as you paid for them, which is a big plus when you're buying a "first gun." If it stinks you can sell it after the season is over and then get the pistol you really want.
I'd avoid the Beretta, but that's just because I don't like plastic...it would probably put all 10 shots in the X ring from a vise. The Ruger is the only gun from your list that I've seen people shoot here. Most of them have equipment WAY out of your (or my) price range.
Good luck!
-J.
I'll second the used High Standard, but it might be hard to find one for less that $400. I shoot a High Standard Trophy and I love it.
Read up a bit on the history of High Standard first though. Here's the condensed version: They made great pistols in their Connecticut plants until the 1970s, then there was a period of knock-offs made by other companies that most people think are substandard.
The company re-opened in Texas in the 1990s and makes the same line-up. I don't know anything about the quality of the new pistols other than that nobody I know has tried one, but their "friends" had and didn't like them. Who knows what that means. At least it means that the parts for most of the older models are available and will be for a while.
If you can get your hands on an older High Standard in your price range, I'd jump on it.
-J.
Read up a bit on the history of High Standard first though. Here's the condensed version: They made great pistols in their Connecticut plants until the 1970s, then there was a period of knock-offs made by other companies that most people think are substandard.
The company re-opened in Texas in the 1990s and makes the same line-up. I don't know anything about the quality of the new pistols other than that nobody I know has tried one, but their "friends" had and didn't like them. Who knows what that means. At least it means that the parts for most of the older models are available and will be for a while.
If you can get your hands on an older High Standard in your price range, I'd jump on it.
-J.
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j.messina
I was in a similiar position about a year ago. I'll add my two cents+ from my research and experience...
Buckmark and Ruger MK's - Plenty of used and number of new models of each in your price range. As a previous post-er said, more value to be had in used. And best deals I've seen have been on the for-sale boards at clubs.
Between the two, there's a big difference in grip angle. So do try shooting each as much as possible. I initially had a Ruger MKII that felt fine in hand. After shooting it a bit though, I realized the grip angle was too steep. The upper-rear of the grip would "walk" away from my hand in sustained fire. Tried a different grip/stock, but no dice. I then bought a Buckmark which was much better for me, with it's much less raked grip. I've since moved on to a Benelli, but we don't need to go there for sake of this conversation.
Accuracy between BM/Rugerwas a tossup. Trigger out-of-the-box is notably better on the Buckmark, but the Ruger was as good or better with the $20 Volquartsen sear added. Reliability was excellent with both.
You can go into details of advantages one has over the other, but I think the fit is more important than any of that. One will be better than the other.
Sig Trailside... I've heard way too many issues with build quality to even consider recommending it. Those that do have good-working examples rave about the accuracy and trigger for a gun of it's cost. Too risky in my mind.
Neos... As-is I don't think the trigger is very good. I don't think it's very "tune-able", but could be wrong. You just don't see them on the Bullseye line, I'm sure for some good reason.
High Standards... Nice guns. Very accurate, real nice triggers. Jus do your research on which ones to pick. Guys on my league team won't consider one unless it's Hamden-made. Supposedly the early East Hartford ones are very good, too. Then the true East Hartford ones are less highly thought of. The current Houston models seem to get a lot of bad press. Customer service most notably.
With older HS's, the trouble is, they're becoming more and more collectible. The $400 mark is becoming the very low end for lower grade models. Though I've seen the Citation models down around here. But again, research, research, research, if you want a HS. Or better yet, find someone at a club that's knowledgable.
I can go into lots more detail on any of the above. But I type slow and I can't sit at this computer all night. Feel free to PM me or reply ti this thread with specifics (such as model suggestions, etc...)
Best of luck in your gun choice - it's a fun journey!
Buckmark and Ruger MK's - Plenty of used and number of new models of each in your price range. As a previous post-er said, more value to be had in used. And best deals I've seen have been on the for-sale boards at clubs.
Between the two, there's a big difference in grip angle. So do try shooting each as much as possible. I initially had a Ruger MKII that felt fine in hand. After shooting it a bit though, I realized the grip angle was too steep. The upper-rear of the grip would "walk" away from my hand in sustained fire. Tried a different grip/stock, but no dice. I then bought a Buckmark which was much better for me, with it's much less raked grip. I've since moved on to a Benelli, but we don't need to go there for sake of this conversation.
Accuracy between BM/Rugerwas a tossup. Trigger out-of-the-box is notably better on the Buckmark, but the Ruger was as good or better with the $20 Volquartsen sear added. Reliability was excellent with both.
You can go into details of advantages one has over the other, but I think the fit is more important than any of that. One will be better than the other.
Sig Trailside... I've heard way too many issues with build quality to even consider recommending it. Those that do have good-working examples rave about the accuracy and trigger for a gun of it's cost. Too risky in my mind.
Neos... As-is I don't think the trigger is very good. I don't think it's very "tune-able", but could be wrong. You just don't see them on the Bullseye line, I'm sure for some good reason.
High Standards... Nice guns. Very accurate, real nice triggers. Jus do your research on which ones to pick. Guys on my league team won't consider one unless it's Hamden-made. Supposedly the early East Hartford ones are very good, too. Then the true East Hartford ones are less highly thought of. The current Houston models seem to get a lot of bad press. Customer service most notably.
With older HS's, the trouble is, they're becoming more and more collectible. The $400 mark is becoming the very low end for lower grade models. Though I've seen the Citation models down around here. But again, research, research, research, if you want a HS. Or better yet, find someone at a club that's knowledgable.
I can go into lots more detail on any of the above. But I type slow and I can't sit at this computer all night. Feel free to PM me or reply ti this thread with specifics (such as model suggestions, etc...)
Best of luck in your gun choice - it's a fun journey!
someone just listed a MKIII for $150 - viewtopic.php?t=16776
I have a Trailside. It's extremely accurate, but the stock trigger is difficult to use. This assembly uses plastic components. The plastic seems to be too soft. The trigger doesn't break cleanly - you just squish it until until you hear the shot go off. If anyone's raving about a Trailside's trigger they've probably got one that Larry Carter built, or had his trigger kit installed. Those are apparently very nice.
Consider an IZH 35 as well.
I have a Trailside. It's extremely accurate, but the stock trigger is difficult to use. This assembly uses plastic components. The plastic seems to be too soft. The trigger doesn't break cleanly - you just squish it until until you hear the shot go off. If anyone's raving about a Trailside's trigger they've probably got one that Larry Carter built, or had his trigger kit installed. Those are apparently very nice.
Consider an IZH 35 as well.
Just as an FYI on the MKIII listed for sale... Great price, actually, but the 22/45 model has a composite grip that I believe is part of the frame. Regardless of the design, there are no aftermarket grip options for it. If it works for you as-is, great.
Also, if you didn't already know, the 22/45 has the more vertical 1911 style grip angle, compared to the standard MKIII - hence the "45" in it's name.
You could buy that gun, use it for a while, and sell it making a few $. As that's a steal of a price....
Also, if you didn't already know, the 22/45 has the more vertical 1911 style grip angle, compared to the standard MKIII - hence the "45" in it's name.
You could buy that gun, use it for a while, and sell it making a few $. As that's a steal of a price....
Hi HB,
Unfortunately there's no free lunch anymore. I like having a gun that's in current production, and that really limits the field:
Inexpensive: Rugers, Buckmarks
More expensive: S&W Model 41
Trade in your Rolex: Pardini, all the other euro guns
There's a lot if interesting alternatives like the High Standards, Marvels, Baikals etc. but they come with a bit of baggage in the form of no factory support, and no parts (how hard is it getting to find a decent High Standard magazine?). The Marvel is in production, but once you put it on your lower, all bets are off.
If you can get someone to check it out, a used High Standard might be your best value, you just have to be on the lookout for cracked frames and try to find enough magazines that work in the gun.
Steve.
BTW, I did buy a very nice used HS Sharpshooter from one of the local shooters, so they are out there, and you'll probably get better treatment (and a test drive) from a local shooter than you will from a dealer.
Unfortunately there's no free lunch anymore. I like having a gun that's in current production, and that really limits the field:
Inexpensive: Rugers, Buckmarks
More expensive: S&W Model 41
Trade in your Rolex: Pardini, all the other euro guns
There's a lot if interesting alternatives like the High Standards, Marvels, Baikals etc. but they come with a bit of baggage in the form of no factory support, and no parts (how hard is it getting to find a decent High Standard magazine?). The Marvel is in production, but once you put it on your lower, all bets are off.
If you can get someone to check it out, a used High Standard might be your best value, you just have to be on the lookout for cracked frames and try to find enough magazines that work in the gun.
Steve.
BTW, I did buy a very nice used HS Sharpshooter from one of the local shooters, so they are out there, and you'll probably get better treatment (and a test drive) from a local shooter than you will from a dealer.
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Marc Orvin
- Posts: 358
- Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 12:23 am
- Location: Colorado
As was previously mentioned, the High Standards are nice pistols, as long as they were either Hartford or Hampden manufactured.
I have had personal bad experience with the Texas versions of the new High Standards. They set a new standard for poor quality. I ordered a new Victor from them. When it arrived at the local dealer, I picked it out of the box and looked through the sights. The front sight was bent 15 degrees to the left. Also, the blue was already showing signs of wear in several places. I put it right back in the box and had the dealer send it back. Took me several months and many communications with them to get my money refunded. Definitely a poor experience.
Others who have purchased Texas HS's have experienced very poorly constructed magazines and constant jamming. This is something that I never had happen with 5 previous Hampden and Hartford HS's.
Perhaps things have improved down there of late, but I wouldn't take the chance on it.
One man's opinion. Your mileage may vary.
I have had personal bad experience with the Texas versions of the new High Standards. They set a new standard for poor quality. I ordered a new Victor from them. When it arrived at the local dealer, I picked it out of the box and looked through the sights. The front sight was bent 15 degrees to the left. Also, the blue was already showing signs of wear in several places. I put it right back in the box and had the dealer send it back. Took me several months and many communications with them to get my money refunded. Definitely a poor experience.
Others who have purchased Texas HS's have experienced very poorly constructed magazines and constant jamming. This is something that I never had happen with 5 previous Hampden and Hartford HS's.
Perhaps things have improved down there of late, but I wouldn't take the chance on it.
One man's opinion. Your mileage may vary.
This picture has been around for a while.
Again it shows a gun I seriously recommend for iron sights. The long tapered barrel has the sight radius you need without un-needed weight. Rugers are plenty accurate and reliable, and servicable. A trigger job and the replacement Volquartsen rear sight can come any time. A reasonable short term improvement is simply adding a Volquartsen sear. That will make a better trigger, but not as good as a real pro job. Another time add a grip of choice or stippling like in the picture. Personally I have been shooting this gun as well as my Hammerli.
Again it shows a gun I seriously recommend for iron sights. The long tapered barrel has the sight radius you need without un-needed weight. Rugers are plenty accurate and reliable, and servicable. A trigger job and the replacement Volquartsen rear sight can come any time. A reasonable short term improvement is simply adding a Volquartsen sear. That will make a better trigger, but not as good as a real pro job. Another time add a grip of choice or stippling like in the picture. Personally I have been shooting this gun as well as my Hammerli.